[SmokinCAT]

Wow, easy to make 2000hp, that's why everyone is doing it.

 

[benjames]

Thanks Mr. Haney for the PM I will try to call Tuesday during the day.

 

[Mr. Haney]

know how,they being EPA control us now,will that truck pass emissions,we have to conform to the epa standards first ,formost,built many that were very very impressive ,cat makes all the parts to do it ,marine cams ,turbos,just EPA,alot of the driver technicians turn fuel to one ,before they actually know what is wrong,seen pittsburg power boxes put on ,covers up original problem ,but it all ways shows it ugly head,now repair is costly ,nothing against a hot rod ,c-16s with 2000 hp ,is easy ,problem EPA, I NEVER REALLY NEEDED HELP FIXING AN ENGINE ,STILL DONT, ANYONE CAN BUY A BIG BOSS ECM, GETTING ALL THAT HP ISNT THE PROBLEM ,ITS RELIABILITY AN SERVICE,

Yep, exactly what I thought. You'd rather argue than admit that you're earlier comments were condescending.

2000Hp isn't easy and can't be done with stock parts, but I'm sure you don't know that. The 211-3028 injector doesn't have enough fuel flow at the tip to build that Hp. But I'll bet you don't know how big you can increase tip size before flow and atomization falls. Because the plunger and barrel in the injector body is only so big. To increase the tips too far actually gets the lift needle chattering. So flow drops. Increasing the tips size too big actually drops internal pressures inside the injector body, so atomization falls off. Things you don't know of I'm sure, while your stuck in your yellow box.

I only worked my own truck for 7 years and 630,000 miles and reliability wasn't an issue. My working combo would dyno 1000+ Hp any day you wanted to test it and you could beat on that all day long on the dyno and not hurt it. In fact I did a massive dyno test one day and had more than 25 pulls on the engine. All of them over a 1000 Hp with the highest being close to 1300Hp. Guess what that truck is still working today and the engine is still the same rods, pistons, bearings, and liners it left CAT with.

 

[jr cat mechanic]

try to help fix the problem the guy has,not sell a 15 to 30,000 dollar overhaul,making hp isnt the problem,all engines ,same engine in marine 2 to 3 TIMES hp as truck,can be done with cat parts,impress me by fixing a problem by not turning the fuel to it ,you cant,the reason for dyno is to meter fuel ,go as high as possible an keep in EPA WINDOW,BY CHANGING FLS -FTS THAT CHANGES FUEL ,TIMING ,WOW IS THAT HOW YOU GET HP AN TQ,METERING FUEL IS HOW YOU CHECK IT RIGHT,AN CHANGE,RECHECK , ,DID THEY SHOW YOU ON DYNO ,HOW TO DO THIS ,OR YOU READING FROM A PAMPLET,YOU GOT AT PERFORMANCE DIESEL [PDI],YOU ARE A TYPICAL KNOW IT ALL DRIVER

 

[SmokinCAT]

Same engine in marine form makes 865hp max from cat.

You sound like another know it all mechanic that thinks because cat did something a certain way it has to be right.

Since your new here maybe you should pay attention to the people that truly solve problems and offer advice, and see how they carry themselves, with the way you come across not one person is going to take any advice you offer.

 

[w9l]

:fanJr, everyone here survived before your 2014 join date. When I joined , I kept my mouth shut and just watched for weeks before I sought or offered advice. Over time I have figured out the folks that are regulars and typically offer advice that is deemed useful by the end result. I can tell you for FACT, you are stepping on the wrong toes to gain ANY respect around here.

The -what I feel is- plausible advice you have given on here seems to be overshadowed by your ability to talk down to those involved. Or maybe it just comes across that way due to poor grammer and pitiful sentence structure.....

Yes, I too am a driver that has been offered a fair wage in a Genuine Caterpillar Dealer shop. All joking aside, I am way too slow to be on that floor. But I am thorough, unlike many running off of book hrs. My Dad was a tool and die maker, by trade. So I inherited slow and picky by nature-and as he told me before he died- it is a curse.

As to this thread, not really a wire motor man myself-don't have one- but the guys you are slamming are some of the best, IMHO. They have real world, bona fide, first hand experience in long term end results and economic feasability. Did they teach you all that at Cat school? My Stepbrother(whom I think the world of, btw) went to "truck drivin school" at age 50, and since graduated and went to work. But, from some of the questions he has asked me about things- like how to go off a hill or mountain loaded- makes me wonder what they did teach him.

:wtf EPA?

As a God fearing individual I try to refrain from cursing in -atleast in public-but I just couldn't help it.

 

[Mr. Haney]

try to help fix the problem the guy has,not sell a 15 to 30,000 dollar overhaul,making hp isnt the problem,all engines ,same engine in marine 2 to 3 TIMES hp as truck,can be done with cat parts,impress me by fixing a problem by not turning the fuel to it ,you cant,the reason for dyno is to meter fuel ,go as high as possible an keep in EPA WINDOW,BY CHANGING FLS -FTS THAT CHANGES FUEL ,TIMING ,WOW IS THAT HOW YOU GET HP AN TQ,METERING FUEL IS HOW YOU CHECK IT RIGHT,AN CHANGE,RECHECK , ,DID THEY SHOW YOU ON DYNO ,HOW TO DO THIS ,OR YOU READING FROM A PAMPLET,YOU GOT AT PERFORMANCE DIESEL [PDI],YOU ARE A TYPICAL KNOW IT ALL DRIVER

LOL

You haven't figured it out yet. Yea I'm reading from a Pamphlet that PDI gave me.

Here is a question I know that the guys in St George UT at PDI don't have an answer for. I'm sure you won't have one for it either. You can ask your CAT Technical Consultant the next time he stops by your shop and I'll bet he won't have the answer either.

Why and how does the FLS/FTS changes made in the ECM effect how the injector fires? How do these changes effect the signal sent to the injector change? How does this signal change effect what the injector does as it fires fuel into the cylinder?

The answers I'm looking for has nothing to do with injector pulse width, even though it can be part of the answer.


When you can answer these questions, maybe you'll be worth the time to argue with. At this time you're not.

These questions will never be addressed or answered by anybody from CAT, not even the engineer that designed the injector will answer them for you.

Good Luck

 

[jr cat mechanic]

FIRST READ BMOELLER MEMBER ON PAGE 2,NOW THE FIRST THING IS EPA W9L AS FAR AS MARINE NO PROBLEM GETTING POWER AN TORQUE,AN KEEP IN EPA STANDARDS ALSO CARB ,DO YOU KNOW THESE PEOPLE,I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN TALKED TO BY THESE PEOPLE ON PHONE ,BECAUSE I WORKED ON TRUCK.NO WORRIES ,MY EXPERIENCE WOULD PROBABLY AMAZE YOU,IF YOU DONT WANT MY ADVICE DONT READ POST ,MY INFO DEAD ON ,IF I AFFEND YOU ,MAYBE YOU SHOULD QUIT WEARING YOUR FEELINGS ON YOUR SHOULDER,I POSTED SEVERAL TIMES HERE WITH ADVISING PEOPLE TO GET A GOOD CAT MECHANIC BECAUSE KNUCKLEHEADS DONE SCREWED HIM OVER,IN THIS DAY AN TIME,MAYBE THESE GUYS NEED DEAD STRAIGHT ADVICE WITH THERE ENGINE ,THE MOTTO PAY NOW GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME,NOT 3rd OR 4th,now fls an fts changes fuel position an rated fuel position,all of these are determined to a point by the specific torque curve an rpm,by changing these you get a wider or longer pulsewidth,thru ecm an info from certain sensors,[do you know which ones],this has to be there before your PDI ECM WILL DO ITS JOB,that in turn changes voltage to injectors [do you know if it is [ ac or dc]if you dont want my advice dont read posts,AGAIN, PDI FLASH IS IT 3200$,I WOULD CHECK A FEW THINGS BEFORE JUST THROWING MONEY AT IT,DONT KNOW HOW MANY TRUCKS IVE WORKED ON STAYED LATE ON BULL WAGONS,FIXING KRAP THAT SHOULDVE BEEN REPAIRED BEFORE THEY FLASHED ECM,INJECTORS, CAM ,TURBOS,THINK REALITY ,THE GUY HERE NEEDED HELP WITH HIS TRUCK ,HE MAY RELY ON HIS TRUCK FOR A LIVING,I HELP THE ONES WHO NEED HELP ,YOU DONT ,RIGHT YOU ALREADY KNOW MORE THAN CAT,OR ANYONE ELSE,OH YES BEEN OUTSIDE BOX MY WHOLELIFE,AGAIN DONT READ MY POST .I THINK I NOTICED THESE NAMES ON A RECENT POST ,LOOK OVER BIGMACHD.GET ALL YOU PDI INFO ,BUY A CAT MANUAL ,COMPARE ,WONDER WHO COPIED

 

[379Longhood]

All right jr cat"mechanic" you are busy yapping about doing it right. on another thread you told a member to use 5EK pistons in a 8PN , with no timing speck, some garbled generic timing, NO mention of meter timing and then you start insulting Mr (Principal)Haney, And I am a mechanic, just ' cause I own iron doesn't change squat.

Taking a truck to a Cat dealer means it gets flashed with the latest and least efficient files, EPA isn't about slowing pollution, or they would have vans with monitoring equipment to actually do real world testing, not full throttle dyno runs.

You come in here insulting members who have earned other members respect. If you are such a good "mechanic" why can't you figure out how to type without the caps lock on.??

Try some manners How do we know how much you really know, most of your posts contain the same stuff that has already been said, many time in the very same thread.

 

[Mr. Haney]

FIRST READ BMOELLER MEMBER ON PAGE 2,NOW THE FIRST THING IS EPA W9L AS FAR AS MARINE NO PROBLEM GETTING POWER AN TORQUE,AN KEEP IN EPA STANDARDS ALSO CARB ,DO YOU KNOW THESE PEOPLE,I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN TALKED TO BY THESE PEOPLE ON PHONE ,BECAUSE I WORKED ON TRUCK.NO WORRIES ,MY EXPERIENCE WOULD PROBABLY AMAZE YOU,IF YOU DONT WANT MY ADVICE DONT READ POST ,MY INFO DEAD ON ,IF I AFFEND YOU ,MAYBE YOU SHOULD QUIT WEARING YOUR FEELINGS ON YOUR SHOULDER,I POSTED SEVERAL TIMES HERE WITH ADVISING PEOPLE TO GET A GOOD CAT MECHANIC BECAUSE KNUCKLEHEADS DONE SCREWED HIM OVER,IN THIS DAY AN TIME,MAYBE THESE GUYS NEED DEAD STRAIGHT ADVICE WITH THERE ENGINE ,THE MOTTO PAY NOW GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME,NOT 3rd OR 4th,now fls an fts changes fuel position an rated fuel position,all of these are determined to a point by the specific torque curve an rpm,by changing these you get a wider or longer pulsewidth,thru ecm an info from certain sensors,[do you know which ones],this has to be there before your PDI ECM WILL DO ITS JOB,that in turn changes voltage to injectors [do you know if it is [ ac or dc]if you dont want my advice dont read posts,AGAIN, PDI FLASH IS IT 3200$,I WOULD CHECK A FEW THINGS BEFORE JUST THROWING MONEY AT IT,DONT KNOW HOW MANY TRUCKS IVE WORKED ON STAYED LATE ON BULL WAGONS,FIXING KRAP THAT SHOULDVE BEEN REPAIRED BEFORE THEY FLASHED ECM,INJECTORS, CAM ,TURBOS,THINK REALITY ,THE GUY HERE NEEDED HELP WITH HIS TRUCK ,HE MAY RELY ON HIS TRUCK FOR A LIVING,I HELP THE ONES WHO NEED HELP ,YOU DONT ,RIGHT YOU ALREADY KNOW MORE THAN CAT,OR ANYONE ELSE,OH YES BEEN OUTSIDE BOX MY WHOLELIFE,AGAIN DONT READ MY POST .I THINK I NOTICED THESE NAMES ON A RECENT POST ,LOOK OVER BIGMACHD.GET ALL YOU PDI INFO ,BUY A CAT MANUAL ,COMPARE ,WONDER WHO COPIED

LOL

Stop reading the service manual or SIS when it comes to the FLS/FTS settings and how they function. What actually happens to the electrical signal from the ECM to the injectors when you make changes to the FLS/FTS?

Yes the voltage to the injector varies. That should be a given considering that CAT puts a warning label about electrical shock on the valve cover spacer saying that the voltage is between 90 to 120 volts. The real part of the question was how does this effect the injector? If you read about how the injector functions in the service manual, why would the ECM need to vary the voltage? What happens to the amperage of the signal? The injector uses the signal to close the spill port. If all the ECM is doing is closing the spill port, why would the signal need to change? The ECM is working as a light switch on the wall to turn on a light in a room......... correct? The ECM is just turning on the injector.......... correct?


You think I don't give advice on how to diagnose problems with these engines. That is an assumption on your part. You don't know me or what I do on a daily basis. You have no idea of the number of people that I talk with on a daily basis about fixing a problem. The gentleman that started this thread is asking why this MBN is getting poor fuel mileage. What is a fairly common problem with the MBN engine that has more than 600,000 miles on it that creates poor fuel mileage and throttle response? I've already warned him about it during a phone call. Why haven't you posted about it here in this thread, since all you want to do is fix it the correct way? This proble can be the reason why the truck is getting 3.5mpg, but you haven't said a word.....why?

You have no idea of what or how I treat people and the time I invest in helping them fix problems. Yet you've already judged me to be something else in your mind.

 

[AaronF]

Einstein never graduated high school.

Kurt is best at electronic Cats (all the respect in the world to you Kurt!), but I wish this were about a mechanical as I would love to read Tony's response to something like this. :roflol:


Those that "know how it should be" and "how it has to be done right", are the ones who 99% of the time WILL NOT help others out just from the kindness of their hearts and to help spread the knowledge to the community as a whole benefits. Those of us who have walked the 2000+ miles a week on 2-4 hours sleep a night and after driving all day had to spend half the night fixing something so that the truck could run the next day so the paycheck still comes in are the kind of people who help out those who we can.
I have never talked with Kurt on the phone, have refered a couple people who speak very highly of him (including Tony), but I do know from reading as many of his posts as I can find that he knows his **** because he has been their and done that with every part of the engine, right from the block up. Now Tony on the other hand, I have talked to him several times. First phone call I made to him, we talked for almost 3 hours! A normal "this is the problem" "inside the box" mechanic/trucker/mr/s fix it would have been a 10 min call. Tony explained what the problem was, why it was doing what it was doing and what to do to fix it and why. (5EK pistons in a 8pn ans total **** btw am there right now and regret it).
Cat said the 3406c crank would never hold 460 hp for the PEEC to be built. :roflol:


Kurt, Tony, Cody, Eric, Longhood, all the others who I can't think of their names right now, cheers and thank you! :happymugs:handshake:salute



Jr Cat Mechanic.
It is not that we don't read what you say, or think that you are offering good advice, but there is no need to yell (capslock) to try to get a point across. You keep saying the same thing over and over, but never elaborate on any of it. That is why very few here respect what you have to say or listen. If you disagree with what someone says, voice that opinion and elaborate as to why. This will truly show your knowledge/experience base and possibly gain you some respect from the members here who have/do.

 

[AaronF]

One other thing, as a rule of thumb, we try to help people fix the underlying problem before we tell them to "turn it up" or "put fuel to it".

Do you really think Kurts engine would have held together if there was an underlying problem at 1600RWHP? Even with who knows how many miles on it as a 1000rwhp daily driver Kurts truck still rolls down the road. Why? The underlying problems are caught early and fixed before they become major problems. Sure a "Tech" can have a truck on a dyno for 8 straight hours, or test drive it for 8 straight hours, but we (the drivers/and wrench turners) are the ones who can tell you when there is an intermittent misfire, or when there is a tire slightly low on air, or where the best place to buy fuel due to quality is based on how different the truck runs. We spend to many hours and miles in the drivers seat to not be able to tell you these things. We know our trucks. We are fussy and *****y because of this. We spend more time in the truck than we do at home each day (even when we are home each night).

 

[jr cat mechanic]

look straight foward,if i reply an you dont understand,ask me to splain it,no problem ,figurlarity speaking ,if you want to know what time it is ,do you want me to tell you how how to build a watch,or just tell you the time.trying to help people ,its free ,your choice, not a typist,wasnt yelling when caps lock got left on ,

 

[bmoeller]

just amazed how much truck drivers know,really amazed,how long do you have to drive a truck to become a good mechanic, real mechanics are in high demand ,go by cat dealer get job app ,you will do fine

Any of us that are truck drivers, that actually know anything about our trucks, is because we largely also work on them, and learned as we went. We also aren't run of the mill steering wheel holders that have to ask permission to take a piss. I started turning a wrench when I was 8 yrs old.

There's no good way to say how long one has to behind the wheel, to get the kind of knowledge base that some of us have. Depends on if the rig you have was a pile to start with and fixed up as we ran it, or was a good truck and didn't have to much to fiddle with. Some of us were taught a lot of the basics by our dads are granddads, or went to tech school (or in my case both). Not only that, when I read, it is usually dry stuff like tech/operator manuals (when I have one). Even a parts book with the exploded views can teach you a LOT. BUT, not matter what you've been taught be either, you'll always come across something that no one you know has seen broke before. You can only be taught so much in the beginning. The rest is all "on the job training". We learned out of both necessity and also some of it for being a tight :bubba and not wanting to spend $100/hr, when we could do it ourselves. Been plenty of things I've had to fix over the years, that even calling a mechanic at a dealership or shop didn't help. In one sense, it's fun to stump them, when I've already checked/tested everything they could think of, but also a PITA, because I have to get going NOW, and can't yet. I even had to show a tech how to change a fuel filter on an ISX. He wanted to use a can to prefill, when you have an electric pump to do it for you (plus no way in hell I'll prefill a filter like that!) What's better yet, I have almost NO service manuals to aid me either. :knight I just get torque specs and things like that, as needed. The parts guys around here are nice enough to print stuff off for me like that.

I'm am big on preventive maintenance. Very rarely have a truck go down on me. When it has, I was usually lucky enough to be close to home. But, the others, I either fixed on the side of the road, in a parking lot or had a couple things that I had to get a service truck coming, or limp to a dealer because I didn't have the tools to do the job. I've even fixed my truck in the KW or International dealer parking lot. I get weird looks from the people working there, because it's not very often when a driver can fix his truck on the spot and get rolling. LOL Did a water pump in a dealer lot in VA (on a 100* day, I might add!) and replaced a clutch brake at a KW dealer. Fixed it up, cleaned myself up and left. Been told " never seen a driver do that before". I tell them "I'm not your normal kind of driver".

NOW. Having said that. Pretty much everyone here that has replied to the original post, has learned more than a thing or 2. Whether as a professional wrench, O/O/small fleet owner and done their own work. These guys have EARNED it all the hard way.

Either get off your high horse, sit back and learn a thing or 2, or we'll run out of of "town". We'll tolerate only so much from snippy green horn "know-it-alls", that get their panties in a knot by throwing on the caps lock. (Ooooooooooo, I'm shaking in my boots! :bang ) Be respectful and join the conversation constructively, or LEAVE. We are here to learn and help each other. Any individual doesn't know everything, but as a whole, if one of us doesn't know an answer to a question, more than likely someone else will.

Apprentice or journeyman, no one has seen it all.

 

[jr cat mechanic]

varying voltage an pulsewidth opens solenoid ,longer ,shorter,as the demand changes an or is ask for by the ecm per flash an fuel #s,not reading sis or service manual ,was i that close,maybe learned something at refresher class fuel mileage can be simple or complex,ive seen poor fuel mileage fixed by fixing CAC leaks,actuator on turbo ,or as simple as program ,run overhead,or with set up of truck driver running 1 gear down on a 13 or 18,setting govenor for use either at 1800 ,or 2100,do you understand about govenor if not ask,from first E-model to accert this matters ,i dont really think there is a common problem ever for fuel mileage,it could even be the trailer hes pulling ,no air fairings ,look if what ive said got you tore up ,i hope no one ask a complicated one,loose your feelings,it will be easier,about drivers most tell you they know ,you hear it every day,dont you,i just send most to driver lounge,high horse not me ,i just tell like it is no sugar coating,thats from to many 100 degree days ,really run me out of town ,ha ha ,

 

[Mr. Haney]

varying voltage an pulsewidth opens solenoid ,longer ,shorter,as the demand changes an or is ask for by the ecm per flash an fuel #s,not reading sis or service manual ,was i that close,maybe learned something at refresher class fuel mileage can be simple or complex,ive seen poor fuel mileage fixed by fixing CAC leaks,actuator on turbo ,or as simple as program ,run overhead,or with set up of truck driver running 1 gear down on a 13 or 18,setting govenor for use either at 1800 ,or 2100,do you understand about govenor if not ask,from first E-model to accert this matters ,i dont really think there is a common problem ever for fuel mileage,it could even be the trailer hes pulling ,no air fairings ,look if what ive said got you tore up ,i hope no one ask a complicated one,loose your feelings,it will be easier,about drivers most tell you they know ,you hear it every day,dont you,i just send most to driver lounge,high horse not me ,i just tell like it is no sugar coating,thats from to many 100 degree days ,really run me out of town ,ha ha ,

You still don't know why the ECM varies the voltage........do you?

Think of it this way. The solenoid is nothing more than an electromagnet. What does this magnetic coil do? It pulls the actuator assembly up to close the spill port. The actuator has a spring in it that must be over come to close the spill port. If you vary the electricity to the solenoid that is generating the magnetism that is functioning the actuator, which has a spring in it. What happens next?

Maybe you need to Google electromagnets and electromagnetism and how it responds to varying voltage and amperage signals.

Once you do this maybe you need to think about the spring in the actuator assembly that closes the spill port and the fact that the magnet has to over come the spring pressure to close the spill port. The next thing to think about is the internal pressures of the fuel inside the injector body during the firing of the injector. Hmmm....maybe the magnet can't hold the actuator assembly closed enough when fuel pressure rises beyond a certain pressure ???????????? Damn would that mean that the spill port is fluctuating/modulating during the firing of the injector to control internal pressures? Now what would happen if the voltage and amperage increases? Would internal fuel pressure inside the injector body increase? Shiiiiit that can't happen.......can it?

Have I given you enough hints to figure it out now?

I also told you that pulse width had nothing to do with the answers I was looking for, but I see you didn't comprehend that either.

You also seem to not know what I was hinting at earlier about poor fuel mileage and an MBN engine. How hot are the Exhaust Gas Temperatures on this engine on a hard pull? Roughly 1200*F after the turbo. Why does that matter after 600,000 or 700,000 miles? Because 90% of the time the center divider in the exhaust manifold and the volute in the turbine housing of the turbo have major cracks or have totally disintegrated. Why does this matter? It create a huge amount of turbulence. This creates very poor throttle response, which usually results in very poor fuel mileage and throttle response. The problem is not many mechanics will remove the turbo to inspect these areas when a driver complains about poor fuel mileage and performance...........do they? So they never find it and don't know to look for it

I got my panties in a wad when you answered in a condescending reply to a truck driver that you deemed uneducated and not worth of reading his post. You assumed his answer was incorrect and not worthy of the original poster's time to read whether it was correct or not, in your mind. You are the one on the high horse demanding respect and attention from us, yet you show truck drivers no respect in your condescending tone with your answers. You need to go back and re-read how and what you've posted in this thread, because at this point in time, I doubt anybody here is going to honor you in the manner you believe you need to be addressed.

 

[Mr. Haney]

Say thank you

Why?


Because if you can understand what I just posted. I just taught you something that no CAT engineer will admit to. It is one of those things that they sign in their employment contract that can't be talked about.

How do I know about it? Good question.


I have a friend that reverse engineered it with a fuel bench that utilizes a CAT cylinder head and ECM with everything functional in regard to sensors. He can very accurately measure fuel flow and how the injector is functioned by the ECM. He also has an oscilloscope to monitor the signal from the ECM to the injector. But in your world he knows nothing.......yet he taught some very important people at CAT a lesson that I doubt they have forgotten yet. In fact they flew half way around the world to learn this lesson and went home with their tail tucked between their legs afterwards LOL

Yet us dumb truck drivers don't know anything. Hell I'm just a internet keyboard hero in my mind to you.

Good luck

 

[jr cat mechanic]

do you understand post ,reread

 

[jr cat mechanic]

do you understand post ,reread

first line ,

 

[jr cat mechanic]

dont want or need your respect,,will that manifold cause that big of a problem ,or would something else be weak first,i dont need your input ok,i think i called when i ask you a couple of ? you searched internet all night looking for answer ,still havent got them