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Discussion Starter #1
I want to hear from people that have actually had problems with o-ring failures with the injectors after installing this spring. I know it gives 100psi, just want to see if anyone has had actual problems?????
 

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Every vehicle is different. I would not ever recommend any fuel system change from stock until you have a fuel pressure guage first. I know International has a max high pressure allowed at 70 PSI. I do not remember ever seeing any max pressure from Ford.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have a fuel pressure gauge and mine was at 98 psi with the spring. Wanted to know if people have problems with injectors or if it is just a warning and no-one has ever had problems with the spring????
 

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I'm using the GDS spring...to my knowledge it's working fine.

I believe my fuel pressure is high like yours, but I haven't measured it. I've got a pressure gauge....just haven't gotten the time to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm using the GDS spring...to my knowledge it's working fine.

I believe my fuel pressure is high like yours, but I haven't measured it. I've got a pressure gauge....just haven't gotten the time to do it.
How long have you had yours in? I had my GDS spring in for probably 2,500 miles and I installed a fuel pressure gauge and it was at 100psi at idle. Put the stock on in and at wot I'm at 40. So I am right in the middle. I know what the injectors are rated for and was wondering if anyone has had actual problems with high psi or what? Thanks
 

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i have always been told that the stock injectors o rings will start to fail with fuel pressure over 75psi but dont know for sure i just used the ford spring and mine is around 70
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i have always been told that the stock injectors o rings will start to fail with fuel pressure over 75psi but dont know for sure i just used the ford spring and mine is around 70
I have heard that too. I was wondering if everybody was just hearing this or if there are actually people out there that have had failing o-rings from the pressure being over 75psi???
 

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I've had my GDS spring in the truck for about 15,000 miles. The truck runs exceptionally well at this point.
It's an 06 F250. I live in Colorado and every year I have seen white smoke out of the exhaust when the temps drop below 20 degrees F.
I've systematically tried different solutions to this issue as follows:
1) K&N Air Box - I thought this might give the engine more air, since Colorado is 5280 feet above sea level. At this point, I think it might be an improvement, but, I can't really say for sure.
2) Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W40 since truck had 500 miles...as I indicated in my signature file - I'm not convinced yet that it helps the white smoke situation, but, again I can't say for sure.
3) Use 8 ounces Power Service Diesel Kleen per 28 gallon tank of fuel - I am thoroughly convinced this helps the truck run better when it is cold. I have seen very small quantities (droplets) of water come out of my fuel separator. I believe there is something in the Power Service fuel additives that absorbs this water. When it's cold outside I switch to using the Power Service additive in the white bottle; it contains an anti-gelling agent.
4) I started adding 1/2 oz TcW3 2 stroke oil per gallon of fuel. I believe this makes the truck run smoother.
5) I change my fuel filters religiously every 10-15,000 miles. I have seen black stuff of some kind in some of the filters I remove; I also see water droplets on them.
6) I re-worked my FICM, re-soldering the 4 resistors in the FICM power supply as well as many components on the logic board - the truck has run a lot smoother and quieter since I did this.
7) I replaced my glow plug control module as well as all 8 of my glow plugs - the truck starts better, produces less white smoke when it's cold and idles smoother during the warm up process when it's very cold.
8) If it's colder than 20 degrees F, I plug it in for 3 hours before starting it. This reduces the amount of time it takes for the temperature gauge to reach the first tich mark and reduces the amount of white smoke during warm up period.

This year is the 1st year I believe I have resolved the white smoke issue with my truck. I believe it was a combination of things that solved the problem for me.
1) Use the glow plugs....let them cycle until the glow plug light goes out.
2) plug it in.
3) let the truck idle until the glow plugs turn off, which is about 15 - 30 seconds after the glow plug light goes out on the dash...you can tell when the glow plugs turn off by looking at the voltage coming from the aux power plug...Plug in a voltage meter; they are cheap, I bought mine on-line for about $25. Then let the truck idle for another 2-3 minutes before driving away. This is especially important when it's very cold. If you try to power up too early in the warm up cycle the white smoke will get worse. If you do this often, you will eventually load up the glow plugs. It will be more and more difficult to warm up the truck...white smoke will get worse. After I replaced all my glow plugs, I'm very careful to wait until the truck warms up a little bit (maybe 5 minutes when it's very cold) before taking off. The truck begins running really good now when the temperature gauge moves above the 2nd tick mark...and it runs really smooth when it's fully warm.
 

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Like I said in my response above...I've been running the GDS spring for about 15,000 miles with no ill effects. When I put it in I didn't notice any improvement. I left the spring in and re-worked my FICM, which showed a significant improvement...the truck starts more reliably and runs like butter when it's warmed up. My next door neighbors tell me it doesn't always wake them up anymore when I start it...my wife also tells me it's smoother.

You really should try the shims in the carrier bearing, also. This eliminates a lot of vibration in the drive shaft at speeds greater than about 30 MPH. It's very noticable.
Obviously, if your on rough roads, this doesn't help, but, when the road is smooth the truck runs much smoother with the shims in place.
 

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Ford's spec is 75 psig.

Several folks have asaid they are running it w/ no issues after 15k-20k miles.

The question I have is why risk it? Injectors are expensive. If it fails in 100k miles and it wouldn't have failed otherwise, then you have lost a LOT of money prematurely. You get absolutely ZERO benefit from pressures over 65 psig. It is not the fuel pressure that affects the spray pattern or the amount of fuel delivered. It is the operation of the injector system as specified by the FICM and delivered by proper operation of the HPO system and the injector itself.
 

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I slightly disagree. If you push fuel to the max of 75 psi instead of 45 psi minimum that is a 30 pound difference. I would think that there is more fuel going to the injector at the higher (75psi) reading than at the lower (45psi) reading.
 

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The fuel pump delivers fuel to a fixed volume inside the injector. The HPO then causes the piston (with a 7:1 intensifier ratio) to compress and inject the fuel. There is no more or less fuel inside the injector piston as a function of fuel pressure (since liquids are essentially non-compressible). The minimum spec of 45 psig is so the fuel will act as a cushion during the injection phase to prevent mechanical damage.
 

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I'm thinking the same as lenzhotrod on this one.
And where is the point of reference that the Ford spec is written for?

And where are all the points in the system where a pressure drop can occur before getting to the injectors? I've heard of the banjo bolts as one of them...what are the others?
 

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I like to learn so even if there is no difference between the 45 or 75 PSI going to the injector you can't tell me that there is no difference in the time it would take to fill the injector.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
When I installed my GDS spring about 2,500 miles ago, I noticed that I had more black smoke. It even would smoke a little just at idle and I could tell a difference in how the pedal was. I did not have to push it down as far to get the truck to react. I think it gave me a little better throttle response to with the added psi. Still looking for someone to chime in that has had problems with having to much fuel pressure??
 

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I like to learn so even if there is no difference between the 45 or 75 PSI going to the injector you can't tell me that there is no difference in the time it would take to fill the injector.
45 psig is the minimum spec based on the need to cushion the piston movement - because of its speed it has quite a bit of inertia. That is from Ford. I don't believe that they would design a minimum mechanical spec that did not fill the injector (and therefore not meet the combustion needs). You can ask for proof and I can not give it to you on this one. It is just sound mechanical engineering and I am assuming that it was done correctly. There is certainly a minimum time span to fill the injector based on a minimum pressure, but 45 psig isn't it I don;t believe. For me my experience is enough to satisfy my curiosity on these specs ..... I have run WOT at 45 psig (before my spring upgrade) and there was simply no "injector missing".

The point of reference for Fords spec is at the fuel pressure test port on the side of the secondary fuel filter - per Ford's instruction videos and literature.

bustedknuckles - you have previously asked me to prove what I know of Fords specs, so I will ask you - where is the basis that forms your opinions? I don't mean to be disrespectful either, but this discussion is a technical one and therefore should have a technical basis. If I am wrong, I will gladly say so. As to the 45 psig, that clearly is based on the knowledge that Ford has of the pressure drop through their delivery piping (again, I assume it was done correctly, but without a doubt it did not account for the extra fuel required by using tuners). It is impractical to put pressure gauges at the injectors, so you calculate the needed pressure upstream and design for that. Again - basic engineering.

3brorce - sorry for the hijack. As you have posted, I would also like to hear from anyone that has had problems at the elevated pressures. I watch a half a dozen boards pretty closely and have not seen anyone post up a problem.
 

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Bismic, I in no way trying to be disrespectful and allways will argue points to further my learning.I have ford spec sheets that show the 45PSI minimum. I also somewhat understand fluid dynamics. But growing up as a hotrodder we always take it too far. Didn't I once see a post where someone took fuel pressure readings from the back head ports? If I recall there was about 5 PSI difference. I would also prefer to have a pressure that is close on the high side as opposed to a pressure that barley makes it.But sometimes our butt dyno's are quite accurate. I also have pulled a few injectors apart to learn and to figure cheap mods. Inside I see what I believe to be the effects of cavitation. I do not know the history of the injectors that is just my best guess.
 

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I didnt realize these spring were for the 6.0 when I made them for Gillette Diesel. I make all of there springs for them. Whoops. They make a hell of a profit off these spring since I make the for like 10 cents a piece.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I didnt realize these spring were for the 6.0 when I made them for Gillette Diesel. I make all of there springs for them. Whoops. They make a hell of a profit off these spring since I make the for like 10 cents a piece.
Sooo, do you have one in your fuel regulator or? I guess you should of sold them yourself because they have sold over 5,000 of them.
 

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Clearly Ford determined that there were fuel delivery issues. The chart below comes from Ford after investigating numerous early injector failures.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/members/bismic-albums-miscellaneous-picture3024-injector-failure-chart.html

Again the question is whether or not Ford learned from this investigative work and then properly spec'd the fuel pressure at the "official" test port. It was after this study that the 45 psig minimum spec came out. Again, one would assume that Ford knows the pressure drop in the fuel rails and fittings (it is constant for each assumed fuel flow value), so that the upstream pressure spec would be appropriate. Ford's main concern was the pressure drop across the main "variable" - the filter system (bad aftermarket filters and biodiesel).

I definitely agree that more than 45 psig is better (up to a point) and if you run a tuner, you need to have an aftermarket fuel delivery system (higher losses in the piping). The question here is how much is too much for the injectors? 70 psig that I have heard quoted as an International spec (not sure of the source on this one)? 75 psig as stated by Ford? 100 psig as stated by Gillette? Why not 200 psig? Where do you stop and by what technical basis do you decide the upper value? I say probably the same source that has published the minimum value that we all quote. All else is guessing - unless it is possible to get data from Gillette users (which I think is unlikely, but this thread is a good start).
 
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