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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A few weeks ago I had the oil cooler and EGR cooler replaced due to puking out the degas bottle. It still is puking the same or maybe even worst than before.
So I'm guessing I'm in need of a head gasket job. What are the steps that the dealer takes to verify that in fact the gaskets are bad?
 

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They should do a compression test. If your gaskets are leaking, they will see pressure loss. Did the puking continue without any improvement at all after the 1st visit? I'm asking to see if the original cause was with the coolers and perhaps it came back after a while if your coolant flow was poor. Tuned or stock?

Ralph
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ralphinnj said:
They should do a compression test. If your gaskets are leaking, they will see pressure loss. Did the puking continue without any improvement at all after the 1st visit? I'm asking to see if the original cause was with the coolers and perhaps it came back after a while if your coolant flow was poor. Tuned or stock?

Ralph
Ralph I would have to say that the two new coolers never made any difference.

Running stock now but I do run SCT during the summer.
 

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If the coolers had no effect, then it is very likely the head gaskets. Don't wait too long to have the dealer deal with it. Of course, see if you can have studs put in.

Ralph
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
ralphinnj said:
If the coolers had no effect, then it is very likely the head gaskets. Don't wait too long to have the dealer deal with it. Of course, see if you can have studs put in.

Ralph

I'm calling tomorrow right away I'm 400 miles from having 36,000 miles on it.

I'm going to see if I can make a deal with one of the supporting vendors here and order a set of studs now so I have them. And if the dealer won't use them return them. But try the note on the seat with the studs and a few green backs for the tech...
 

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they arent going to do a compression test. they put a pressure gauge on the cooling system and run the hell out of it if the pressure gets above a certain point then pressure from either the cylinders or egr cooler is getting into the coolant.
 

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actually a compression test doesnt always show bad head gaskets. as the gaskets usually leak under a heavy load not idle. what the dealers do is exactly what ford boy said. we install a pressure guage in the system and run the piss out of it. anymore than 18 psi in the cooling system means something failed. jus because you had both coolers replaced dont be so sure its gaskets yet. i had to install 3 egr coolers to get a good one and some of the oil coolers are coming with casting media in them so they plug up right away. ford just launched a new tsb about a month ago or so that deals with this. it has a new way of testing the oil cooler and egr cooler. i would have the tech go through the tsb rather than through gaskets on it. unless you dont mind having your truck there. it could be something small like the oil cooler plugged or bad egr cooler.
 

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Ok, fine, but if the gaskets only fail under a heavy load and running the piss out of it does not pressurize the chambers enough to make the gaskets leak, how do you determine a head gasket leak?

Ralph
 

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I see the logic, but if the gasket leak requires the load that you mentioned earlier to get it to leak, none of the above will ever lead to the little box that says "Replace Head Gaskets." I like that you atleast said "is it correct always? of course not."

Maybe I should have said "they should do a combustion chamber pressure test." If the head gaskets leak at fairly high CP's (say 2500psi or higher), you will need to generate that pressure to observe the leak. I don't think the above scheme will get you there.

Ralph
 

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it doesnt all the time thats why were i work atleast we replace both coolers and if it comes back it gets the headgaskets and usually a head or two most of the time the a warped past the .002 that is allowed and we are not allowed to have them machined. Ford wont pay for it or warranty a failed part or gasket on a machined head. so we replace them. if you try their steps atleast on the old tsb it will show up the coolant pressure will go above 18 psi if the bolts are stretched. i have not done this tsb yet so who knows if it works. i think ford got tired of people throwing both coolers and headgaskets at every truck that had coolant loss. is the reasoning behind this tsb. I see were you are going with this and dont know why they dont have a cylinder pressure test but it would be hard for a dealer to get that much pressure into the system safely. from what we are told day in and day out its not the gaskets that leak its the bolts stretching. the fact that there are not enough and wrong size probably has something to do with it. i have tried compression tests on ones that i knew were bad and still achieved 380-400 psi in 03 when this problem started making itself known. its a messed thing and i dont understand who why or what they are thinking when they com up with these tsbs. all i know is i have to follow them to get paid. I do know that there is someone that gets paid to sit there and think this crap up and gets paid alot more than me. even though that person probably could not even perform the repair on his own in a real world situation. do i agree with the way they diag pukin no. but untill someone comes up with a different method its all we have to go buy. a running compression test might show some loss under full load but that task would pretty much be an all day event and dont know how accurate it would be. it would have to be more accurate than what we have now.
 

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cb44473 said:
it doesnt all the time thats why were i work atleast we replace both coolers and if it comes back it gets the headgaskets and usually a head or two most of the time the a warped past the .002 that is allowed and we are not allowed to have them machined. Ford wont pay for it or warranty a failed part or gasket on a machined head. so we replace them. if you try their steps atleast on the old tsb it will show up the coolant pressure will go above 18 psi if the bolts are stretched. i have not done this tsb yet so who knows if it works. i think ford got tired of people throwing both coolers and headgaskets at every truck that had coolant loss. is the reasoning behind this tsb. I see were you are going with this and dont know why they dont have a cylinder pressure test but it would be hard for a dealer to get that much pressure into the system safely. from what we are told day in and day out its not the gaskets that leak its the bolts stretching. the fact that there are not enough and wrong size probably has something to do with it. i have tried compression tests on ones that i knew were bad and still achieved 380-400 psi in 03 when this problem started making itself known. its a messed thing and i dont understand who why or what they are thinking when they com up with these tsbs. all i know is i have to follow them to get paid. I do know that there is someone that gets paid to sit there and think this crap up and gets paid alot more than me. even though that person probably could not even perform the repair on his own in a real world situation. do i agree with the way they diag pukin no. but untill someone comes up with a different method its all we have to go buy. a running compression test might show some loss under full load but that task would pretty much be an all day event and dont know how accurate it would be. it would have to be more accurate than what we have now.
Ford is in the RED and is trying everything they can to bring the corprate profits back up. INTERNATIONAL is not helping out on the warrenty work and ford is having a LOT of repairs on the 6.0s. They are just hoping the public will get tired of this and buy a new 6.4 truck. :popcorn:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for all of the excellent information guys. That is one reason this is the best diesel site. I called and have an appointment to drop it of at the dealer Wednesday morning. I asked the Service advisor what is the next step. He said at this point I can't tell you that. We need to diagnose the problem. I said that is my question what is the next step in the diagnose. He said that is up to the tech. I said OK see you Tuesday afternoon.

cb4473- If I read correctly what you posted the techs really have no latitude in how they diagnose this issue. they have to follow the tsb's Is that a correct statement?
 

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Ford is really counting beans right now they are in the midst of changing they way they pay for any diesel warranty. Ford by the end of may beginning of june are coming out with 5-6 tsbs for the 6.0 and they are supposed to cover every system and yes we have to follow the tsbs. you can have a egr coller broken in half and they still want you to follow the damn tsb.
 

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are you saying they are coming out with new tsb's...any dirt on what they are?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
cb44473 said:
Ford is really counting beans right now they are in the midst of changing they way they pay for any diesel warranty. Ford by the end of may beginning of june are coming out with 5-6 tsbs for the 6.0 and they are supposed to cover every system and yes we have to follow the tsbs. you can have a egr coller broken in half and they still want you to follow the damn tsb.

I wish I could have you as a tech. Around here I don't think the service guys or the techs ever read the tsb's. Whenever I mention them they give me the deer in the headlights look. Maybe it's a game they play . Is there anything wrong with me printing the tsb's along with the flow chart you posted and giving it to them? Or do I run the risk of being the smart alic customer and piss them off?
 

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probably piss them off then you will have to find another dealer. a better approach would be is to ask them if tsb 08-3-7 applies to this concern. that way they know you did your homework. but you dont take a risk of making them mad kinda getting your point across with out being pushy. as of now this is the only tsb for coolant loss. i would post whole tsb but there are over 20 pics that i would have to save then post so that would take some time. plus if they dont know about the tsb which i highly doubt but this will inform them of it. gives step by step instructions how to test every part of the cooling system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I went and talked with another local dealer at lunch today. The service manager pulled up the tsb and took a look at it. It's a small dealership and they only have one diesel tech. He said they would be happy to schedule my truck and perform the tsb to diagnose the problem. He said it pretty detailed and should get them them to the root cause of the problem. I asked how long does it take to do it. Anywhere from 1/2 hour to 20 hours he said. Right now they are booked for the rest of this week. The tech is on vacation next week. So I made an appointment for 3/10. I hope the tech has a good vacation and comes back to work in a good mood and not hung over. I think I'm better off taking it to this dealership in the long run. I like the idea of having one guy work on the truck not a team like at the other dealership.
 

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teams suck although when we get behind and myself and thwe diesel guy are looking at 4 sets of headgaskets we will tag team them that way we get them done in a timely fashion 1 a day so sometimes it works out but we work on them together not seperatly
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Update along with a question...

Took the truck in to the dealer yesterday for the puking issue. Got another new degas bottle cap. I think this is the third one. This is what the tech had to say. I could make it puke or not puke depending on if I had the ball valves open or closed on your coolant filter. If I ran it hard with them closed it would not puke. I would open them up and I could make it puke. Run it with the valves closed and let me know if you think I'm right or not. So what do you guys think. Could it be under hard acceleration the coolant filter is pumping the degas bottle full and making it puke?
 
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