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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so pretty much the concensus that I have gathered, is that this would be due to the pressure from my FASS, and possibly having a damaged diaphram in my VP. The weird thing is, I ran the FASS for 3-4weeks without having any problem, then all of the sudden last week, it started getting really hard to start, it probably takes 3 seconds of cranking to turn over. How can I fix this? Will getting a lower pressure spring help? or can I replace the diaphram in my VP or is it time for me to buy a HotRod-44(that would suck I didn't want to do that until this fall). Anyways, thanks in advance guys.
Sean
 

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I have never had a problem starting it when hot, I hope the vp is not dead:barf: . It could be to much pressure, what is it runnin. I run 19 at idle and 14 wot:Thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm about to go check all my return lines and injector lines and connector tubes and what not. Hopefully I'll find something there. Its weird sometimes when I start it, if I tap the throttle it will fire up pretty quickly, other times that doesn't make any difference. We'll see i guess.
Sean
 

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Well I am having the same problem. I also have a FASS. But I have a buddy that has a computer. We plugged it into my truck and guess what. Internal Timing malfunction. That really sucks. So I tried to take all my goodies off and go back to the dealer. They ran a check on the code and there were 7 codes. The pump malfunction, APPS, Trans relay override, overboost, Pump timing override and a couple of others. And they would not warranty the pump or APPS. I have heard the Hot Rod pump is not worth the money. I guess if i cant get a plan VP44 for $1000 or a little less in town I really can visulize paying another $900 or so for just 80Hp.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
okay the weirdest thing, I tried checking all my lines and what have you, no leaks, system works fine. I tried cranking it, and it wasn't going, I let it sit for a while, and then cracked the number 1 line, it fired right up. turned it off, tightened the line and it fired up fine agian. Drove down the street to this girls house and it started fine went to lunch got out, and the same thing as before. I hope its not a timing malfunction.
Sean
 

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Let me save you all a bunch of head scratching and brain racking!!

I've had this problem on and off ever since I put my Stage 4 injectors and Holley Blue pusher pump on. I'm running anywhere from 20 to 26 psi to the injector pump. I thought it was the same thing, I blew something in the VP!!!

My solusion!!! Take it for what It's worth!!!! It always works for me!!!


If you are having a hard start Problem after Mods when it is hot and the truck cranks like normal at cold (ie after sitting over night )


1. on your next Fuel fillup spend the $11 and get 1 gallon of Power Services in the white Jug!!! Every Fuel stop Has it and it's the cheapest fuel additive out there.

2. Before you fuel up, Pour the whole gallon into the tank!!!! Yes the whole gallon!!!!

3. Fill your tank full of Diesel!


Now buy a new Gallon to keep in your truck!

Clean out a 20oz soda bottle and keep it with the power services!

4. Every time you fill up, or at least everother time add a whole 20oz bottle's worth to your fill up.


Now the rassional:

The problem we are seeing like this one is NOT and it repeat NOT the VP going south!!!!!!!!! It is NOT air bleeding into the system!!! It's NOT a Cracked injector line or loose fitting!!

The problem is that the new fuel that is being sold is a low sulfer Fuel!! It no longer has the lubrication that it use to. With added pressure from aftermarket Tranfer pumps and the less lubrication we are seeing reactions with the VP!!!

You may think this sounds crazy, but I've been there and seen that for over 2 years now!! Trust me IT WORKS!!!! Everyone should add atleast the recommended amount of fuel additive every fillup! I use power Services cause it's cheap and It has never let me down. I haven't added it for the last 6 fill up's and I'm getting the same problem again! Time fore a good system cleaning and Lub and start adding every fill up!

JG
 

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Let me enlighten this a little bit, THE VP44 DOES NOT LIKE fuel pressure above 15psi, infact the VP really wants 13psi constant. No you can not replace the diaphram in the VP yourself, you may be having VP problems already, but then again you may not..........as far as the HRVP44 shoot me a PM and I will let ya know what I know about them..........since I do sell the things for Industrail Injection............since I am in and out of these pumps I can help you out..................just shoot me a PM if you are intrested.....later Jim.
 

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:agreed: I'm with Joe, I did not added the power service for like three tanks and I nowticed the difference, I added the last two tanks and the truck ran better and my mileage went up. The new ultra low sulfur diesel is going to need the additive for our trucks:nunu: .
 

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Sounds like a good thing to try. But if my truck is throwing a timing malfunction code is it actually going south or what. Aslo about the TPS is there any ways to fix it rather than going to the dodge house and paying $450 for a new one. My truck will take off but then you can punch the pedal and no acceleration and then all of a sudden bam your gone and then it will do it again. Those are the symptoms of the TPS going out right?
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02 Cummins 4x4 L/B Q/C, FASS, 5" exhaust, stage 3 jammer injectors, B2 turbo, Edge Drag comp, AFE stage 2, ATS tranny, ATS triple lock converter, ATS Torque commander,
 

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Discussion Starter #12
so you get what, about six tanks or so out of one of these bottles, after the first go round, is that right. So its only like 2 bucks a tank, that isn't that bad, its worth a shot anyways. As far as low sulfer is concerned, I thought that the low sulfer was yet to come out, and would be marked at seperate pumps. Or thats what I was told anyways, I don't know how credible the source was, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Sean
 

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HOSS PERFORMANCE
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if the vp44 doesnt like more than 15psi would it work to run a regulator to keep it close to that when fass or pusher pump is being used??
 

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I would not recommend running Power Service due to the fact that it is alcohol based. You would be much better off running Howes or Standadyne for a cetane booster. Sean, I would be guessing that your are talking about the metering diaphram on the back side of the pump, I forgot about that.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yeah, thats the one. I also had another thought. Could it be the diesel that I was getting out on the Road. I haven't had to fill up since i got back, and it only started happening after I filled up and used fuel from other states/ other parts of this state. Could it be a winter blend that I was getting. Just a thought.
Sean
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here is What DPP has to say on the issue of the FASS and hard starts when hot.

Hard Starts Usually the FASS only encounters hard starts on the 1998.5 – 2002 Dodge Cummins with the VP44 injection pump. If this occurs it is usually on a VP44 with high mileage, and/or a VP44 that has been subjected to around 5psi of fuel pressure or less. It is more likely to occur when the weather is warmer/hot. Explanation of Diaphragm: The diaphragm in the VP44 is designed to move about .5mm with proper fuel pressure (about 7psi min.). When the VP44 is subject to about 5psi or less the diaphragm can move up to 2mm, an increase in movement of 4 times more than what it was designed to move. With this type of movement the diaphragm will eventually develop stress cracks thru out the body of the diaphragm. One job of this diaphragm is to separate low fuel pressure and high fuel pressure in the housing of the VP44, when the cracks are present this separation does not occur. This will lead to hard starts even with a stock OEM lift pump!! Here is a simple test: Note: Not all failed pumps with broken diaphragms will start with low to no supply fuel. Sometimes the diaphragm is so broken that charging pressure is not able to build to a level that allows the pump to deliver fuel. Try starting the vehicle without waiting for the fuel pump to cycle. Meaning when you turn the key to the on position immediately engage starter. Or: Unplug the FASS pump or remove the fuse so the FASS pump does not operate. Note: If the engine operates without fuel pressure for a period of time the VP44 will be destroyed. Understanding this condition, start the truck. If the truck starts shut it off immediately!!!! This test just indicated that the better/increased fuel pressure from the FASS pump is overriding the thinner diaphragm and/or cracked o’rings surrounding the diaphragm in the VP44. There are four solutions to this: Repair the VP44. VP44’s were manufactured with a thinner diaphragm which can and will cause hard starts with hot weather and or higher fuel pressures. Thicker diaphragm’s for the VP44 were released around 2003 for correcting this situation. Remember it doesn’t matter if the VP44 has the thinner or thicker diaphragm, if the VP44 has been subjected to a failing transfer pump (lower fuel pressure) or a failed transfer pump it will lead to this problem. The damage was done by the failing or failed lift pump before the FASS was installed. Lower the fuel pressure from the FASS system. Early FASS Fuel System units for the 24 Valve Dodge (Serial # 1378) came out with the PS-1001 spring, usually around 10 – 11psi. Later units (Serial # 1379) came out with the PS-1002 spring, usually around 16psi. The cost for the spring is only $7.50. Most customers prefer the higher pressure from the PS-1002 spring. If this is the case we recommend an oil pressure switch (Honeywell Hobbs part# 78143) on the ground side. This is done by placing the oil pressure switch in the oil gallery (on top of the oil filter). Then disconnect the ground from the ECM and (if it has it) the ground to the battery from the FASS wires. The ground wire is then connected to the oil pressure switch. This will delay the FASS pump until the engine has 3 – 4 pounds of oil pressure. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS SOLUTION!! Place a manual on – off switch in the cab, this way you can turn the pump on after the engine starts.

Sorry this is so long, but this is what I'm thinking the problem is. I tried their first suggestion, which was not wait for the pump to cycle. That made it even harder. I guess I'll move on to suggestion number 2 and see if that makes a difference. If not I'll go to dodge and try and get a new Diaphram or something I guess.
Sean
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok, so I just tried suggestion number 2 from DPP which was unplug the FASS wire, so it doesn't pump, thus not sending the higher pressure to the VP. Truck fired right up, shut it off immediately and now I'm going to the Autoparts store, see if I can't rig up an oil pressure switch, until I buy a new pump that is.
Sean
 

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I just bought a 2000 24v, let me know when you are going to buy a new pump. I have a few timing tricks I'm going to try on this truck, it may be pretty interesting. Plus there is no difference in price from a factory replacement pump.
 

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I guess i am going to buy a pump on monday. We ran the codes again and same thing. Internal timing error. Smokem what timing tricks are you going to try i might be interested in trying them on my pump on monday.

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02 Cummins 4x4 L/B Q/C, FASS, 5" exhaust, stage 3 jammer injectors, B2 turbo, Edge Drag comp, AFE stage 2, ATS tranny, ATS triple lock converter, ATS Torque commander,

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah, timing tricks sound interesting!! keep me posted.
Sean
 
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