The Diesel Garage banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
:usflag Has anyone tried the off brand head studs on ebay ?
Ed
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
head studs

:usflag Pioneer, Bavarian, Eurasa, and Falcon to name a few but after a closer look they are not rated as high as ARP.
Thanks Ed
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Not sure on the comparison of strength what I would look at is the resources ARP puts into being the best when it comes to manufacturing, development, metallurgy and things like creating lubes for torquing. I don't like how it's hard to find the yield strength values as that is the true important value. You would never tensile a head bolt and if you did you have much bigger problems. The reason our stock head bolts stink is they are yielded at the factory meaning they have already exerted all of their clamping force and there is no strength in reserve.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Bolt-Materials-and-Terms&A=110592

There was recently a post in the heavy duty section about some stretched brand new out of the box OEM CAT studs. Most likely due to a bad material batch or improper heat treat.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
Xln't link you provided Weld! Like that article on the application and tensile strength of the different materials.

Harry
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weld engineer

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
:usflag Thanks Weld Engineer that is some great Info.
Ed
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weld engineer

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Weld if you don't mind me asking what amount of torque did you start with when installing your studs.
I have my engine down for EGR cooler and oil cooler so I am going to pull injectors to check Orings, so I may as well install studs now.
Ed
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Weld if you don't mind me asking what amount of torque did you start with when installing your studs.
I have my engine down for EGR cooler and oil cooler so I am going to pull injectors to check Orings, so I may as well install studs now.
Ed
Ed,

If your doing them one at a time (pulling 1 bolt and replacing it with a stud) then I followed the ARP instructions but I skipped to the second torque since I didn't want my clamping force on the heads to loosen if that makes sense. If you are pulling the heads then follow directions as specified. I have had no issues and as long as you understand the risk and have confidence your gaskets are intact then I'd do it. I did a thread on my job. 1 ARP at a time. Sorry on vacation and my phone is tough to post on. The rear studs are tough but achievable.

Wes
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks weld that is what I needed to know as I am doing them one at a time as I don't have any gaskit problems.
Ed
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weld engineer

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
head studs

Weld engineer what did you have to do with the heater housing on right side to get the head bolts out?
Ed
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Weld engineer what did you have to do with the heater housing on right side to get the head bolts out?
Ed
I unbolted it so I could move it around but didn't disconnect and lose the charge in the A/C. I then used a hole saw or spade bit and cut a hole in the plastic housing. Made it possible to remove the bolt and insert the stud. I then used some aluminum plate I had and made a plug with two pieces and clamped them together with a screw and nut (inside and outside housing) Dabbed it with silicon to seal it up and glued the heat shield back on.

Drivers side I unbolted the transfer case on the crossover and used a hydraulic jack to push everything to the drivers side frame rail. Just barely clears.

Hope that makes sense. I'm gonna PM you my cell#.
 
  • Like
Reactions: harry6.0

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
head studs

Thanks weld engineer I will see what I can do first. I have been seeing different amounts of torque on the studs, but my stud kit says 210 ft lbs in three steps is this correct?
Thanks Ed
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weld engineer

·
Member
Joined
·
1,213 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Mine were the 210 version. If you look at the date on the bottom of the instructions the 210 is the newest but I believe they made a lube change. Why the instruction version number is lower is anyone's guess. I would think 4205 would be the latest.

I did 140 then 210 as listed on directions skipping a 70 (3steps of 70). Glad my kit was not 265. 210 was tough enough with poor access and limited areas for a cheater. Plus you basically have to lay on the beast.

Follow the torque sequence as listed. I hand tightened with an Allen key.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deereman39

·
Stuck in Commiefornia...
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
254-4204 is the ARP 2000 material. Retail is about $470 these days.
254-4205 is the ARP Custom Age 625+ material. Retail on these is a whopping $1100+

Custom Age 625+ is a higher yield material than ARP 2000, the yield point being the amount of stretch you can apply to the fastener before it loses it's ability to pull back, also meaning more initial torque and greater clamp load from the stud in the same application. That's the difference.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
254-4204 is the ARP 2000 material. Retail is about $470 these days.
254-4205 is the ARP Custom Age 625+ material. Retail on these is a whopping $1100+

Custom Age 625+ is a higher yield material than ARP 2000, the yield point being the amount of stretch you can apply to the fastener before it loses it's ability to pull back, also meaning more initial torque and greater clamp load from the stud in the same application. That's the difference.
Nice catch. I just looked at arp website the custom aged 625 list at $1600. Ouch. I guess if your building some serious HP and high boost.

It did seem like the torques were higher in the past and they changed lube but I've determined I'm like a well used knife - my sharpest years are behind me. :roflol:
 

·
Stuck in Commiefornia...
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
In 2010 ARP introduced a new thread lubricant that drastically reduced thread friction during the torque procedure. The original spec for the 250-4202 studs was 245ft/lbs in three even steps. The only change was the lube, not the stud or nut material.

Any time you remove friction in the threads it takes less torque to reach the torque spec, which is determined by the stretch in the fastener, much the same as a torque to yield fastener is torqued based entirely on angle after reaching a minimal preload using a torque specification. The reason is that the torque to yield fastener is predicted to stretch X-amount in Y-degrees for the firm thread pitch. If you pay attention, you should be turning all the fasteners the same amount for the second and final torque sequence steps after the original torque is met.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weld engineer

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
head studs

OK I got the studs installed, deleted the EGR cooler, resealed injectors, replaced stand pipes, and dummy plugs but truck runs bad. It was very hard to start and only turns about 1800 RPM at full throttle. Also it takes a lot of cranking to start it. Any ideas of what to look for. Oh thanks to weld engineer for all your help and ideas.
Thanks Ed
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
Likely just a bunch of air in the hi-press oil system, need to run it for bit to bleed it out. Very common what you are experiencing after the work you just did.

Harry
 
  • Like
Reactions: deereman39
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top