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Discussion Starter #1
Thanks to all in advance.
I'm rebuilding the following. ser 3ZJ40585 / arr 6I3474. Old piston #101-0016, Cyl head round ports, Exh manifold square (B style). New turbo OR6689. What can I do to make this engine come alive internally. Need piston # preferably lower comp than this 16:4.1 that are all cracked. Injectors #. Trying to make the old cat purr.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
(Cam followers) I'm guessing you mean lifters.II'll check them. Is there a difference between the old and newer style? Thank you
 

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Yes, big difference in the lower thrust area of the body, also better oiling to the roller with them. Unless yours are worn just reuse them with the updated clips.
 

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If you reuse them, you are taking a chance on breaking a clip, and the lifter turning in the bore, and wiping out the cam & lifters. The bottom of the lifters wear, and the rub area in the lifter bore in the block both wear, and then the lifter clip groove runs crooked and drags the clip up and down and it can eventually can break. However the new style clips will take a lot more abuse before they break. But I just encountered a new style clip that broke. I sleeve a lot of lifter bores, due to broken clips, due to wear in the lifter bore in the block, and lifter bottom thrust surface wear. I do not recommend using B style lifters over again, but it is up to you, if you want to take the chance.
 

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I didnt see where he said anything about having any problems with his cam!! and as far as their being w C or B lifter thats incorrect! they both came with the same lifters. Their is an updated lifter thats been avalable but it never came in any of them originally and they cost just under $100ea! Dumping almost $1200 bucks on something that isnt broke seems pretty crazy! id definatly remove them and inspect them and replace all the clips but unless they show a bunch of wear on the bottom bore side thrust area which the motor he has with a 7w3798 cam rarely ever has then their is no reason for him to replace them! the older B's with the 3012 cam had much more follower and follower bore problems like your describing because of its more aggresive (faster) profile!
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thanks cat attack for info. I don't know if you have read the biggining of my post but maybe you can help me as it seems you may have the knowledge I'm looking for. I can't get no help from our local cat dealers down here as far as info. I'm trying to change comp ratio and the matching nozzles for a 3zj40585, keeping every other hard part the same for now just want to do piston ( inframe) any idea? Tried to pm sledman since he has had a proven c model build but he must be out making the $ I'm spending LOL. Trying to stay aluminum if possible but not necessarily.
 

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I think you and I have about the same setup. Mine is a 425hp 3zj51437 originally with 101-0016 pistons. I just overhauled it with IPD pistons and liners with the same piston number. I put a reman round port head and new E style exhaust manifold on it and kept the original waste gated 112-6918 turbo. I did a bunch of searching on this site about this engine and decided to try 0r8785 nozzles for more power but they are no good for these Pistons. It trailed way too much smoke no matter how I set the pump or static timing so I just put in 6 cat reman 100-7557 nozzles which are original for this motor. I then turned the fuel 3-4 turns out and just about maxed the afc for maximum response and pin timed the pump stock. The motor now does not smoke at all running through the gears and smokes just right on the upshift, and runs cooler both water temp and exhaust.
There is ALOT of b/c motor info you can search off this site but it seems smokincat is about the only one around anymore. He has a guy in Ohio who will hone and balance stock injectors but I chickened out and put stock nozzles in. I would definitely try honed stockers before 8785 if I did it again in my case.
 

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I didnt see where he said anything about having any problems with his cam!! and as far as their being w C or B lifter thats incorrect! they both came with the same lifters. Their is an updated lifter thats been avalable but it never came in any of them originally and they cost just under $100ea! Dumping almost $1200 bucks on something that isnt broke seems pretty crazy! id definatly remove them and inspect them and replace all the clips but unless they show a bunch of wear on the bottom bore side thrust area which the motor he has with a 7w3798 cam rarely ever has then their is no reason for him to replace them! the older B's with the 3012 cam had much more follower and follower bore problems like your describing because of its more aggresive (faster) profile!
I never inspected the lifters/cam when I overhauled but this has me wondering, when I bar the engine over setting the valves this last time, I could hear one pushrod "clicking" when I would turn the engine over. It did it before I adjusted the lash and after. It's only this one pushrod, is this a sign of a lifter going out?
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks for the much needed info smoothtightkittycat
I'm gonna try finding lower comp piston than 101-0016 those where all cracked and I'm guessing its the comp. I've read all other post but I'm wondering if I can use the steel tops with my original cam with out having valve to piston problem or finding lower comp piston (aluminum) that fit my rod pins. Years back I did this to a, I believe was an early 3zj with narrow rod bearings. I used lower comp alumium pistons Lots of fuel and turbo the thing still running till today with no major breack down.
 

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Just gonna throw this in- for what it is worth:

1. I have had terrible luck with the OR prefix injectors (Cat Reman)
No problems with the (in this case) 7W series. (New Cat)
Chased all kinds of smoke, heat, strange noise issues for 50k miles after installing OR injectors. 4 were junk in 50k.

2. I have personally been down that cam follower carnage road. It is not a cheap or fun trip. If I had known that the spring clips can be changed without pulling the head I would have changed them a long time before my mess.
Here is where I differ in my thinking. I know of this happening 3 times. Once on my 3zj, and once on two different B models. All three of them let go between 1.2 and 1.35 million miles. All three have been in my family. All 3 had just had the overhead run by the same "old timer" that did our overheads for years. I checked the overhead on mine as I took it apart and it was dead on. Mine was making an unusual clicking noise that turned into a miss and then a dead miss, etc. 800 miles from home, took stacks off and loaded on to a stepdeck I hired at truckstop to take me home. Told him to go around Indy, he didn't. That is how I got flat top sleeper. But that is another story.

Jump forward, I have it all apart. I measure lifter bores. to my amazement there was no appreciable wear in them. (less than .001 for the most part) That was real testament to the metallurgy that Cat used in that era, imho.
Lost one follower and of course lobe off cam. I was told by more than one Cat mechanic to replace the one follower and all the clips and use the rest of the followers if no signs of gaulding or wear marks were noted. So I go to town and get cam and clips and a lifter. I get home and feel of new lifter and then old ones.Seems like a bit less play in the axle on the new one. I set them all up on height stand and check slack. I don't remember exact numbers but the new Reman (and it was new I am most sure) was somewhere around .004 iirc vs the old ranging like .015 -.019. I bit the bullet and went to town and bought 11 more followers. I think the added slack from running overhead lead to a slight increase in the impact forces and broke the lifter instead of the spring breaking. Of course the spring was broken but so was one leg that the axle goes through. Told this to my friend who is a truck engine machinist, while he was helping me put cam bearings in. He thought about it a bit and said "I never thought about it that way, but you are probably right" I am not a bona fide Cat mechanic. My dad was a bona fide tool and die man though and I picked up a few things about wear and measuring things along the way. Sorry for the novel.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Follow up;
Pistons 10R1439 (2 piece steel ),rods mains and thrust bearings,reman round port cyl head, inj OR8789, updated lifter clips and updated oil pump retainer are all installed. Waiting for correct 3/8 bolt double oilers to come in (cat sent me the 7/16 bolt style). Next weekend will be fuel pump and advance unit time.
I'm thinking of dropping a compound set up from a c15 accert that i converted to single and have all the parts to it. I know I can make it fit, but would it work! What do you guys think.
 

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Yes it will work great but requires quite a good bit of fabrication. gotta make a bracket to mount the low pressure one and make an elbow to connect your air to air piping to your low pressure turbo inplace of the un needed precooler. Also requires the use of an accert style manifold because of the style flange used. Id go with an aftermarket borgwarner single setup unless u have a good accert manifold to use. Let me know if u need some part#'s
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Catattack I really appreciate your help. I have the accert manifold, I'm sure I can get the fab work done I'll let you know how it goes.
 

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The only thing i can tell you about the whole setup that i would suggest doing is having the nozzles flow matched and have the pop off pressures adjusted...cat has raised the popoff psi on alot of theyre nozzles and the OR-8789 and the new nozzle part # 130-5187 have a pop pressure of around 3500psi! 1800-2200 is where they should be and your fuel pump will live much happier and it will deliver more fuel at the lower pressure. What state are you located in?
 

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Diesel Control in Ohio are very knowledgable on performing this task and are very reasonable. Their # is 1-877-853-0044. Speak with jim and tell him what your wanting to do. Think they charge around $30-45ea to flow match, lower pop pressure, and trim the unloader pins for more delivery.
 
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