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Discussion Starter #1
First I just have to say....DAYUM! With only the Street tune the power is AMAZING, I can't imagine how this thing would scoot running the hotter tunes combined with other power mods.
I ordered the Economy, Tow, and Street tunes through Innovative. My plan was to by the SCT X3 per most of the recommendations on here but it has been replaced with the X4, so that's what I got. In Economy mode the trans shifts much sooner than stock and feels completely natural, no lugging, bogging or slipping. With only one day of driving so far I think I'm going to like it for daily driving, thats IF I can resist the urge to run the street tune, (I was grinning ear to ear).
Tech support isn't available on the weekend so I'm hoping someone here can address a couple of issues and questions.
1- Innovative recommends running the street tune for towing up to 10k, I tow around 8K. Have you guys found this to be better than running the tow tune?
2-At one point during the test drive I left a stop sign somewhat normally for a few truck lengths then stomped on it, Wow! The tires broke loose slighty, found traction and then at the 2-3, or the 3-4 shift ( I don't remember) it acted like a manual trans missing a shift and hitting what I guess was the rev limiter around 4400 rpm before I backed off and it "found" a gear again. What the heck was that? It's something I definitly don't want happening again. The Tuner shows the rev limit to be 3600 rpm, how did this happen?
3-On the tuners info page (where it shows the rev limt etc.), it has three lines;
Shift press 1-2
Shift press 2-3 and
Shift press3-5
the default has all three listed at 0%, what should I set those at?
Unfortunately it didn't come with any owners manual and SCT said they don't have one online yet (why release a product without having a manual ready?).
What do ya think guys?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's the plan, but they're not open until Monday, thats why I thought I'd toss it out here in the meantime.
 

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So, are these custom tunes written for your trucks PCM strategies?

Or, are these canned tunes written for all strategies?

If they are custom tunes, contact Innovative.
If they are canned tunes, I would recommend ordering custom tuning.
Good written custom tuning is second to none when matched to your truck, modified or not.

1. With custom tuning one shouldn't have to tweak or set anything, and the shifting should be perfect for the program thats loaded, unless maybe something is wrong with your transmission.

2. If your not studded and your going to tow 8k, I would only recommend stock or a mild tow tune only.

3. Running a 80-100+ rwhp street performance tune w/out studs and towing 8k is asking for blown head gaskets....remember we only have 4-bolts per cyl clamping down those HG's, when everyone else has 6. Even if studded and towing 6-8-10-12-15k+ one should run a tow tune when towing.

4. Running a 80-100+ rwhp street performance tune w/out studs and not towing is ok, but it's still a risk and you should use the power with caution.

5. If your running tuned, like many of us are, one should have gauges and a larger exhaust, high egt's can and will cause problems, especially if egr is still active.

6. I have no clue on the changes within the new SCT X4, but have a feeling were all about to find out....and welcome to the power addiction club, things will never be the same for you now, don't ask me how I know...:happymugs

Harry
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The tunes are from Eric. This is my first experience with any tuner so I'm not familiar with what features they have. The X4 has a page that shows some of the settings (for lack of a better or proper term), one of which showed the rev limit to be 3600 rpm which is why I'm puzzled. I monitored the engine closely for the last couple of years, it's well maintained, close deltas, added a coolant filter and 4" turbo back exhaust and so on before I considered getting a Programer and I'm mindful on how I drive. Hopefully by sticking with the milder tunes I won't have HG problems, but I'm aware of the possibility.
Innovative was specific when I quizzed them about towing, they said to use the Street tune not the Tow tune in my case eventhe Street version puts out 120 hp vs the Tows' 65 hp.
I'll have to wait 'til Monday to try to contact them, I'll report back with the results for future reference.
Thank Ya Harry!
 
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You may want to get their opinion about no studs. As Harry mentioned clamping force is limited due to fewer bolts and the torque to yield design. I did studs one at a time and so far so good. Basically pull one bolt and replace with a stud moving around the head in the torque sequence. There are risks but if you are confident the original ones are good it's an option.

I like my tow tune and atlas 40 combo. You may want to install a pyrometer to keep an eye on EGT's.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I told them it has the original studs and gaskets when they took the info for setting up the tunes, they said with the three they were providing it wouldn't be a problem ( I know even stock tuned trucks have failed) but to stay away from the more aggrssive tunes.
How big of a PIA was the one stud at a time? Looks like a couple of them would be darn near impossible to get in, or did you pull the cab? I've never been deep into this motor, or any diesel for that matter and don't plan on it myself. The most I've done is pulled, cleaned, and reinstalled the turbo. Has anyone ever looked into O-ringing either the head or block on one of these?
I'm looking at Pyro's, are there any good ones that can be had for a decent price?
 

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I know that one member on here has oringed heads, runs hot tuning and has had no issues for years. But also many others have had good luck with just properly torqued ARP's and stock Ford oem gaskets. Heres some heads that the controversal Bill Hewitt is offering...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMRYrUqJ_X4

I've had my Autometer gauge and pyro installed for the last 10+ yrs and had one pyro probe fail after about 4yrs. It quit reading egt's properly, but did not melt or break off. I would stick with Autometer or Isspro for pyro setup, you don't want a cheap pyro probe taking out the turbo. And it's better to have a matched set (pyro probe + gauge) from the same manufacturer for ideal accuracy.

I also drilled the hole for the pyro probe fitting in the drivers side exh manifold on the rear bottom after it curves away from the last port from underneath the truck with the engine idling and wearing safety goggles. With the engine running, the exhaust pressure will push out any small shavings. Same thing when tapping the hole too.

Will have to wait for Weld's response on his studding details.

Harry
 
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Discussion Starter #9
I agree with ya on avoiding cheap gauges, you usually end up paying more in the long run due to replacing them. Autometer and ISSPRO are the two I'm considering, both have a good rep.
The tip on where and how you located the probe is VERY helpful, thanks. When doing that type of work I usually grease up the drill and the tap to collect the shavings and thought I'd put my shop vac onthe tip while doing the work. I think I'll use your method and just let her idle. :)
 

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I second the autometer can't find the thread where I posted pics of my installation. My truck wasn't running I just used gravity and took my time. I also used my shop vac to assist. Not big on laying under a running truck.

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115988

As far as ARP 1 at a time yes the two rear ones are tough.

I had to unbolt the transfer case from the crossmember then use a bottle jack to push everything to the frame rail. Just enough clearance to get the bolt out and stud in. Then on the passenger side I cut a hole on the air conditioner box and made a clamp out of some aluminum sheet sheet metal screw to pull them together (inside and outside the box) along with a little silicon caulk to seal things up. It's not the easiest thing to do and pulling the torque required standing on your head can be a PITA. I think I have a PM I sent to another member with more descriptive steps. I'll take a look.

Update.

Here is the pyro install info.

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121514&page=4
Wes
 
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Discussion Starter #11
An update of sorts; It's almost impossible for me to get to the phone while at work, which is during the hours that Innovative is open. I finally got a chance one day but couldn't get past the Sales guy to speak with someone in Tech, very annoying. He said that each tune takes about 150 miles of driving for the trans to relearn each tune, said that is common knowlege and I should have known that. I gotta say, I've never heard or read that anywhere before or since while researching Tuners, but then again I'm new to the programer scene. An e-mail to them asking if they could have Tech call me or if there was a #t hat I could call them was replyed with "No, we only have the one ph# that is listed on the website.
I tried calling SCT after work a few times but was on hold for up to 45 min before giving up or timing out past their 10 pm operations. I eventually got to talk to someone (I don't remember her name) and she said there is about a 120 mile learning process because the PCM has to go through two cycles. This seems to be a PIA everytime I want to switch tunes, ( she wasn't sure if it took as long after the truck has used each of the tunes).
I ended up sending SCT an e-mail with some questions, one of them was about the trans relearn. Their reply said that they don't think the 6.0 needs to do a relearn process. More conflicting info, this is really getting frustrating.
I've only had a chance to drive the truck twice since the installation and am kinda leery about running it to hard until it gets a few more miles on it. We'll see.
I'll be finishing up a Pyro gauge install on it in the morning and will be making a trip towing with it soon, looking forward to seeing how it's going to do.
 

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Hopefully Idaho350 chimes in he is extremely knowledgable about tuning. I'm not and expert but don't think there is a relearn on the torqshift. I'd give another place a call. Harry recommends KEM I have tunes from MKM customs.

You may want to PM Idaho350 if he doesn't see this thread.
 
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Most modern computer controlled automatic transmissions, like the Torque-shift 5 speed automatic found in our trucks have what is called an adaptive learn strategy, and will relearn and adapt to any programming changes that are performed to the engine.

However, there are limitations to the stock strategy tables for the transmission.

For instance, the old inline programmers, the type where you could dial the desired power level on the fly would wreak havoc on the Torque-shift transmission because it could not instantly adapt to the higher engine power levels, and many people burned up transmissions because of this. It could take a week for the transmission to adapt to these type of inline on the fly tuners, and really depended on one leaving it on one set tune for this to happen, but most people would be turning it up, turning it down, see a another truck to race and turn it back up and hammer the throttle...results were severe slippage and a cooked transmission...thats why they are not popular anymore. And even if you did allow for a relearn to take place by driving easy at first for few days and slowly allow more and more throttle-power with your rt-foot as time goes on, the higher power programs were just too much for the stock untweaked transmission strategy tables and the transmisssion would never really learn right.

Now...if you have an SCT with proper written custom tuning, your transmission is tuned to match the engine power tune you have loaded, and you should have instant results with your transmission shifting to match the new power levels, with very little if any relearn time should be needed.

Older PowerStrokes, like the 7.3L can have inline programming on the fly and have instant shifting to match due to the type of computer it has that allows for this, so a 6 position inline chip like TS performance makes allows for instant engine and transm shifting to match on the fly, unfortunately our 6.0L PCM does not allow for this, it has to be flashed in.

With Mikes tuning from KEM, my 6.0L shifting is instantly a perfect match to the programming loaded. Innovative knows how to do this also.

I would double check your engine and transm strategy numbers, and makes sure there were no errors and the tunning was written for exactly those strategies.

Harry
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks guys! I wish I could get this kind of rsponse from the folks I gave my money to.:bang
I re-read the e-mail from SCT, he said he doesn't believe the 2006 6.0 has any learning but it might take a couple of drive cycles for the Readiness Monitors to reset, I kinda/sorta understand what those are but I don't think they affect how the vehicles run.
I gave Innovative the Strategy both on the phone when ordering and in the initial e-mail so they could write the tunes so hopefully they got it right. I will recheck it though and send them another e-mail, the ohone thing ain't working. I'd really like to talk to "Eric" but can't find out how to contact him directly.
It's frustrating to have both Innovative and SCT tell me by phone that the 6.0 has a 120-150 mile relearn, yet the e-mail from SCT's Tech guy say's he doesn't believe it does. Argh! A couple of my buddies were waiting to see how I liked my Tuner before they bought theirs, I guess I'll have them check ot Kem and MKM.
Harry, the way you lay it out makes sence to me and seems to be in-line with SCT's Tech guy.
Thanks fellers, DG has been very helpful a number of times, I found some good info on here while installing the pyro gauge, especially on the under dash wiring stuff.
 

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It's been along time since I've talked with SCT, and Matt at SCT was the best tech guy there in my opinion, but I'm not sure if he still works for them or not. He used to chime in on here once in awhile, but it's been years since I've heard from him.

Your rediness codes are only the PCM self check diagnostic fault codes checking themeselves off. When a new PCM program is loaded or you clear your fault codes a drive cycle must be fulfilled before some or all of the diagnostic fault codes check themselves off and register as passed-ok in the PCM. In other words, it can take several drive cycles for the right conditions to occur for the PCM to register a system such as egr, as the PCM self test may require checking egr during decell at 50mph with your foot off the gas pedal for 3-5 seconds, this is unnoticeable to the driver, but the PCM checks air flow changes and if all is good, then registers egr as passed-ok, if it dosen't pass it can set a pre-registered fault or set a check engine light on, all depending on the importance of the fault or system. When a vehicle is brought in for an emission test, they check for the rediness codes, and a certain amount of the key important systems must be checked off as passed-ok, so if one was to clear the faults just before the emission test and they see the rediness tests not checked off as passed-ok, then it will fail the test.

Harry
 
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