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Junior Member
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

My check engine light came on and it is a P164A O2 Sensor Positive Current Trim Circuit Performance (Bank 1 Sensor 1). Checked with my own tool and re set. Light came back on in a couple of hours. My dealer can't get me in until after Christmas which really makes me un happy. They told me because it is a deisel they need to keep the truck for 48 hours to diagnose the problem. It's been quite a while since I had a diesel, just wondering why they wouls need to kwwp of for 48 hours?? Also, anyone know if driving around like htis coudl cause any issues??

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #2
FYI for anyone who drives in a lot of snow and extended cold weather.

My dealer got me in a couple of days ago and they tell me the reason for the check engine light and P164A code (apparently there were other NOX sensor related codes there that I could not see with me cheap OBD-II tool as well) is that the air filter was plugged with snow. They say the reason it took so long to get in is because they have had over a dozen 2011's back with the same issue since we had our last big snow fall last week. My tech checked with another local dealer and same thing, the 2011's are lined up to get in. My dealer figures Ford will come out with a tech bulletin pretty soon (but who know's, that's just what he tells me) to fix this issue. He says it is an extremely high percentage here (Edmonton, Alberta, Canada) of 2011's that have come back since the last big snowfall / cold spell with this issue.

Dealer replaced the soggy air filer N/C.

For now I will install a winter front and see if Ford does anything.

And YES, I do know that the manual says to watch out for this...but there is no way I am going out every mourning in -20 to -40C and checking if there is snow in my air filter. I have been driving for 25 years and have never had to do it, no way I will start now. She will be sold if the winter front or Ford doesn't fix the problem.

But I STILL love this truck!!!!

Thanks
 

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Senior Member
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The 08-10 are really bad for this to. I keep a spare filter in my cab in the winter. I have been so plugged off i couldnt do over 10 kmh without the EGTS going threw the roof i couldnt even get the filter out had to bring it into a heated shop and let it thaw out so i could change.
 
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ADMIN/MAFIA
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FYI for anyone who drives in a lot of snow and extended cold weather.

My dealer got me in a couple of days ago and they tell me the reason for the check engine light and P164A code (apparently there were other NOX sensor related codes there that I could not see with me cheap OBD-II tool as well) is that the air filter was plugged with snow. They say the reason it took so long to get in is because they have had over a dozen 2011's back with the same issue since we had our last big snow fall last week. My tech checked with another local dealer and same thing, the 2011's are lined up to get in. My dealer figures Ford will come out with a tech bulletin pretty soon (but who know's, that's just what he tells me) to fix this issue. He says it is an extremely high percentage here (Edmonton, Alberta, Canada) of 2011's that have come back since the last big snowfall / cold spell with this issue.

Dealer replaced the soggy air filer N/C.

For now I will install a winter front and see if Ford does anything.

And YES, I do know that the manual says to watch out for this...but there is no way I am going out every mourning in -20 to -40C and checking if there is snow in my air filter. I have been driving for 25 years and have never had to do it, no way I will start now. She will be sold if the winter front or Ford doesn't fix the problem.

But I STILL love this truck!!!!

Thanks
The LMM Dmaxs has the same issue. Do cold air intakes void your warranties? if not maybe you can change where it sucks air in or something so those of you who deal with a lot of snow can stop the issue. Seems Ford could have caught this. Just thinking out loud.
 
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Junior Member
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I just got the P164A code tonight. I have 1933 miles on my truck and live in Alaska. Hopefully a new air filter will fix my problems. I really don't want to have my truck at the dealership over Christmas and New Years.

If anyone finds a permanent fix to keep this from reoccurring please keep us posted!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My engine light is back on after only a day and 50 kM since I got it back from the dealer. Same code, P164A and P2A00. Air filter is clean and dry. So I have no idea, 4 days at the dealer doesn't seem to have helped and I can't aford for it to go back for 4 more days. If anyone can help please do!

Thanks
 

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No offense but you really let it sit at the dealer for 4 days to have the air filter replaced?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes sir, and none too happy about it either.
They say that is how long it took them to "figure out what the problem was". Being that the light is back on and the filter is dry looks like they didn't figure anything out.......

:bang
 

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Junior Member
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Yes sir, and none too happy about it either.
They say that is how long it took them to "figure out what the problem was". Being that the light is back on and the filter is dry looks like they didn't figure anything out.......

:bang
Taking mine to the dealership on Wednesday. Hopefully it doesn't take them 4 days!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
mc5150, please let me know what they find, my dealer is getting nowhere on this issues. The say "Ford is not calling us back", nice excuse.

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mc5150, please let me know what they find, my dealer is getting nowhere on this issues. The say "Ford is not calling us back", nice excuse.

Thanks
Will do.

I cleared my code out last night with my ODBII scanner and it immediately came back. Definitely not a one time error.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, I cleared mine 4 times over about a week (ehile I was waiting to get into the dealer) and it always came back. But mine took from about 20 min to a few hours to come back each time.
 

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Just got my truck back from the dealership. I was told they aren't sure what's causing the code and Ford doesn't know either. They said there was another truck in today that had the same problem. They sent us both home with our trucks and said they'd call back after they "investigate further".
 

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A motorcraftservice document says the P164A code will trigger if the NOx-O2 Sensor voltage is not within the 0.95-1.10 range. Mine is reading 0.009

P164A - O2 Sensor Positive Current Trim Circuit Performance (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

My code reader indicates O2S B1 S1 = 0.009

Back to the dealer on Monday
 

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P164A In an extended overrun/decel fuel shutoff condition, an adaption factor is calculated for the response of the O2 sensor to ensure that the sensor reads 20.95% O2 in air. Code is set if adaption factor is outside the range 0.95 – 1.10
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I copied this from another forum, not sure if it's valid?
The second paragraph is about all you need to read.
Seems that Ford is well aware of the problem and woring on it.
I was supposed to take my truck back in today but cancelled as it appears the fix is a ways off, no point in taking it in if they can't fix it!!!

Thanks

"I'd like to clarify a few things that will hopefully address some of the questions and concerns regarding the repeat MIL/Code setting for the Nox sensor as well as provide a little background of how the product concern process works here at Ford. Note that I must state that these are my own opinions and not those of the Ford Motor Company, per Ford policy.

First off, yes, there appears to be an issues with a MIL (multifunction indicator light/lamp) code being set for Nox. Engineering is investigating the issue, Nox sensors have been and continue to be returned through the warranty parts return process for bench and on-vehicle testing to verify that 1) the sensor was in-fact defective, 2) that the sensor operating parameters are not biased (shifted higher or lower than the design specification allows, 3) the interfacing systems hardware and software operate as intended, 4) Some other outside factors are not influencing the system (contamination, etc.) that may or may-not have been accounted for. Note that a SSM (special service message) is currently pending, looks like a calibration change is coming mid-February. I expect the SSM to provide the detail of how the vehicle itself is impacted. Gut feel at this point is that the error state parameters in the calibration are either too narrow for the sensor's signal or the sensors output are biased slightly. Testing will determine which and how best to correct.

Now I'd like to provide you with some background that should provide some clarity regarding the concern identification process. First off, a dedicated staff of over 100 technical specialists receive input for our Dealers. This information is captured, keyword coded into a database, part numbers, etc. There's a second group, called product concern engineers that data-mine this database for trends, repeat repairs, etc. Once a concern has been identified, a service fix "count-down" clock is started.

Engineering and Service are measured as part of our performance metrics which is tied directly to our performance reviews including senior management. Some are measured on how fast a new concern was identified, while others are being measure on how quickly a resolution can be released to the dealer network. This creates a "checks" and "balances" type system to make sure that concerns are identified quickly, and that corrective actions are implemented. From the opening to closure of a new concern, rule of thumb is approx 70-90 days, with the majority being resolved much sooner.

Concerns are prioritized, based on severity. First and foremost is "dependability" which is directly tied to the impact to the customer. Then there's confidence, irritation and cosmetic. The reason for such prioritization is that resources are allocated based on the most critical issues first. Of course anything safety related takes precedence. It only takes a handful of concerns typically 6 or less of "confirmed" issues reported from the Dealer back to Ford with a population of <100,000 vehicles to trigger this process, and that scales lower for lower vehicle production volumes or new product introductions/launches.

The company is acutely aware that this is "your" vehicle and that it's your life that's being affected and that you expect a resolution when a concern arises. The people I mentioned above have sole responsibility to drive these issues to closure, that's what they do, that's all they do. Issues are reviewed daily and reported out weekly by a concern management team. If the process is working as it should, progress is being made, actions are in place and closure is forthcoming, all is good. I will also say that there are occasions and circumstances where there can be delays in the development of a permanent corrective action. This is typically caused by insufficient / inconclusive data to make a sound decision or exactly what the root cause of the concern is.

Issues are never ignored, it serves no purpose when your working to be the best automotive company on the planet to not listen to your customers. There are at times that disagreements between departments, especially if an issue is considered "normal" by engineering and thus not defined as a concern. However, the same process applies and if field data continues to grow, the Service team will escalate the issue again. I guess the point I'm trying to make that the people here do care and will do everything in their power to get product issues resolved as quickly as possible and there are processes in place to make that happen.

Please keep in mind that the Dealer is in a tough spot when there's no service fix available and engineering is investigating root cause. There's great frustration from all those involved. I'm not making excuses, these vehicles are very complex and it takes a little time to sort through them when an issue does occur.

Hope this helps...

-Paul "
 

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Mine was fixed

I took my truck to the dealer last week, they found the P164A code and replaced the sensor. I no longer have the problem. They kept the truck overnight to test it the next day, all is good.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Replacing the sensor has not solved the problem for all trucks here. Only one that I know of. My dealer replaced the sensors in 2 trucks and the problem remained. I talked to them today and they said they would not replace any more sensors until they hear back from Ford. My truck and 4 others sit and wait....
 
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