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Did some digging and came to my own conclusion that the trade secret of Rev-X is a Potassium-Borate mixture mixed with mineral oil. So about half of it is a Potassium-Borate. This compound should also should not be used in concentrations below 0.5% or above 2.0% of the total amount of oil its mixed into according to data I''ve posted below. So 480oz=15qts, 1%=4.8oz, 2 bottles Rev-X=about 4.0oz of Potassium-Borate as the rest is mineral oil. So your getting just under 1% of the key ingredient Potassium-Borate with two-4oz bottles of Rev-X mixed into your 15qts of motor oil. These articles are from various sources. This chemical was patented in the 70's.
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There is a class of additives that deposit solid films by the action of “electrophoresis,”(is this the polar attraction?) which will be explained later. Potassium Triborate (commercially in the form of
[K2O (B2O3)3], and Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3), fall into this class of additives that can form a rather tenacious coating on the sliding and shearing surfaces of machine parts.
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In 1967, tribological and chemical studies indicated that AW and EP films could be formed by lubricants containing borates. In 1976, J.H. Adams of the Chevron Research Company, patented a number of Borate Lubricants for Gear Lubricant applications. Since that time, a number of additive companies and internal oil company labs have produced many boron-type additives for gear, engine, and grease applications. Recently, Argonne National Lab’s Tribology Laboratory Section has done extensive studies with Boric Acid (H3BO3). Luboron’s products have arisen from these studies.
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For engine oils, there has been a need to reduce the poisoning of the exotic metals in catalytic converters from organic phosphorus compounds, usually due to the phosphorus in ZDDP. Whether this problem is real or perceived, this has led to the reduction of ZDDP and the increased use of non-phosphorus AW and EP additives such as MoTDC, SbDTC, and the Borates. In engine oils, the microparticulate borates are prepared by dissolving an alkali metal borate in the presence of a metal sulfonate and succinimde dispersant to form a micro-emulsion which is then added to a base oil, or as part of an additive package. When an oil uses this additive, an analysis of that oil will show both potassium and boron. The concentration of borate additives is in the range of 0.5% to 2% by weight. "Any concentration less than 0.5%, or larger than 2%, shows up as increased wear in the 4-Ball Wear Testing machine." As you can see, additive chemistry is a meticulous balancing act, so as to preclude additive clash.
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A side benefit of the borates in motor oils and gear lubricants is their action as mild detergents and as acid reducing agents. Their alkili chemistry helps to retain the oil's TBN, or Total Base Number as well.
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A Blackstone Labs UOA of pure Rev-X shows this:
Harry
 

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Man, I don't really care what is in it. I have ran it in my 6.0, my 7.3 and still run it in every race engine I build (after it has been broken in!) and I can say for a fact that I have never seen the results that this product keeps putting up. It just works! I don't think that blackstones spectro analysis is giving us all the data as well! I have also had the raw product tested and had been told that the raw product in some aspects was way over what a spectrum analyser can test. I have talked to the guys at the company and they laughed when I told them I had it tested. They stated that there are 62 ingredients with blocking additives as well. I am always curious about what is in a product, but, 62 ingredients! I know what kind of performance I have seen in using revx and I have never seen that with another product. Seems to me to be cheap performance that saved me money as well.:rock:happydance:rock
 

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I agree, it does seem work very well, especially in the 6.0 powerstroke. And I am still using it today because I have yet to see any negative effect so far. I basically started this thread to try an understand the product better in hopes that we can learn what it is, and how it "really" works without the smokescreen that Rev-X is blowing at us. Theres no denying some of the main active ingredients of potassium/boron/sodium/calcium. But its also good to know what is the correct amount to use or not use in a powerful chemical additive, as from what I understand, too little or too much can have a negative effect. For example, what if a person uses only one 4oz bottle in a 15qt engine oil mixture, is it going to harm the motor? What is Rev-X affraid of in coming forth with in disclosing more of the facts? If the product is expensive to produce, then so be it, I don't have a problem with spending money to protect my motor if its genuine and safe. But I suspect at some point in time, Rev-X will be confronted with having to disclose all facts of the product, would be nice if they would just do it for us. I have seen one independant dyno test before and after Rev-X was added, and it shows a slight across the board improvement in H&T numbers. But where is all this data that Rev-X claims from all this testing? Like these statements they have on their web page:
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– Yes! We have performed extensive testing with turbo applications and have found that with the use of REV-X Performance Oil Additive we can extend the in service life of any turbo up to 4 times the normal life span. REV-X Performance Oil Additive drastically reduces friction on treated bearing surfaces which allows the turbo an increase in efficiency which provides faster spoolup at lower rpm's, increased boost on top end (how much will vary on the turbo used) and reduced thermal temperatures on the compressor side of the turbo.

– Through oil analysis testing we have seen reductions in wear metals as high as 70% on treated components.

- Yes! It is necessary to continue using the additive with every oil change to maintain the increased performance and protection of the treated component.

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To: Dan Wilson, President and CEO
REV-X Products, Inc.

Please show us some facts of all this testing on Rev-X and how it does what it does as a friction modifier and why it is so different/bettter than other products on the market, something better than "trade secret" and "62 ingredients", thats all I ask. You have a product that seems to work, but many people like me, like to know more. Why not come forth with some better info for your customers present and future other than the usual common additive claims? Or have we been fooled again? I surely hope not.

Harry
 

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Harry - Thanks for doing the homework. Hopefully Rev-X steps up to the plate and openly answers your questions.

So I know you have also tried ZDDPMax. Do you think the formula (2 bottles) also applies to this product or just 1 as mentioned in many posts.

Also, after having used both products what benefits have you seen from one and not the other?

Cheers
 
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Harry - Thanks for doing the homework. Hopefully Rev-X steps up to the plate and openly answers your questions.

So I know you have also tried ZDDPMax. Do you think the formula (2 bottles) also applies to this product or just 1 as mentioned in many posts.

Also, after having used both products what benefits have you seen from one and not the other?

Cheers
Thanks for the compliment Smoker. Just trying to find the truth.

With ZDDPMax you really only need one bottle. My Blackstone UOA after 5k miles with only one small 2oz bottle had 1500ppm Zinc/1294ppm Phosphorus, which is pretty much perfect.

The benefits I noticed from ZDDPMax is it made my truck run noticeably better almost immediately, as it did for others, and that was just adding it without an oil change. But it did nothing for my cold start injector stiction issue that was occuring.

The Rev-X cured/masked my cold start stiction issue completely so far, and its been 10k miles now with no symptoms returning. But I used 2 bottles the 1st oil change/1-bottle the 2nd oil change/2 bottles again the 3rd oil change just this last Sunday. As far as noticing an improvement in performance, I can only say, I don't really feel much except maybe the idle seems a bit smoother, but it always does after an oil change.

My concern with Rev-X is, too little or too much could be harmful from what I understand about its chemical properties. And I would like Rev-X to show me some "science" about the product and not just some typical media sales hype.

With owning such a tempermental and expensive engine as a 6.0, I have continued using Rev-X so far, because I believe it does work as a detergent for clearing up varnished spool valves in the injectors and also as a friction modifier to keep things well oiled and moving freely.

I really guess the best way to see if it did clear up my stiction issue, is to not use it at all. But now I'm hooked, and with the truck towing our horses alot for summer activities lately, I'm looking for that extra piece of mind in lubrication protection, especially knowing I had an injector-s issue before hand.

Harry
 

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Been curious about Rev-X forma while now. Looking for similar additives I stumbled across this link. It's a good read, possibly the source of some of the quotes above. Thorough read through gives at least one possible source for a suitable additive

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729116&page=1


So I found this stuff:
http://www.evergreenamerica.com/store/
$25 for 16oz, but I'd want specific info fronthe mfg or an analysis before pouring it in my truck...


And this stuff:
http://www.altboron.com/
 

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Excellent find Idaho, it looks like you may have found the secret. It appears this may be an identical substance, or very close to it, and at a substantially lower cost. I will find out more, even if I have to call them to pick their brains.

Harry
 

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yea that would be awesome for that cost compared to the rev-x 32 bucks for only 4 oz. Get 4 times as much for a lower price. Does the mixture need the mineral oil or is that just a filler?
 

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Ok guy's. I emailed the president of Evergreen America Corporation. His reply was fairly technical, but is backed up with real research and science. I am going to order some of this product called AR9100 and try it in my next oil change. He believes Rev-X is older micro technology based and not the newest nano technology, which is claimed to be the future in lubrication. Here is my email and his response. (I blotted out some of my personal info)
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(my email)
Questions about AR9100. There is a very similar product on the market called Rev-X engine oil additive. It's a potassium-borate oil additive also. Rev-X works fantastic in the Ford Powerstroke 6.0L diesel engines, but is horribly expensive(about $70.00 for two 4oz bottles to mix into a 15 qt capacity oil change). Is AR9100 basically the same type oil additive, and is it safe to use in the high pressure oil system that the 6.0L Powerstroke uses to hydraulically pressurize the fuel injectors? Pressures can see 4000 psi using the motor oil through a secondary high pressure pump system in this engine. Oil analysis of pure Rev-X shows high levels of potassium/boron/sodium/calcium mixed with mineral oil. I am willing to try AR9100 in my 6.0L Powerstroke if it is safe. How much would you recommend(16oz for 15qt capacity)? Does it change the oil viscosity at all? And is too much or too little a mixture percentage harmful in anyway to engine bearings or the turbocharger? If AR9100 does work as good as Rev-X in cleaning and helping with friction/stiction issues due to varnish that the 6.0L Powerstroke injectors seem to have, then you will likely have a huge sales number increase in AR9100 once the word is out. I am hoping this product is similar or basically the same active ingredient. I can provide oil analysis readings of pure Rev-X if needed to compare. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely, Harry .........
daytime cell ...........
home ..........
work 509-455-9100 (Mercedes Benz of Spokane WA.).....I am a diagnostic technician for Mercedes Benz

(response)
Hi Harry,

Yes I know of Rev-X, it is not a borate from what I can tell. Our nano borate has a COF 0.037 and a load carry of 4000 pounds, please see attached. We have no trade secret magic ingredient, the process is proprietary, not the ingredients. The synthetic ester matrix complex is what the nano borate is mixed with for distribution in the fluid system, it dissolves carbon and varnish for the nano borate to chelate and form a uniform surface especially in high friction areas. Nano technology is the future for lubrication since it is so far superior to micro technologies. The particles are manipulated for custom characteristics. The oil analysis will not be accurate since the oil itself already contains up to 67PPM of boron alone. A test of the product itself must be performed. When I see an ingredient that is a trade secret I think of chlorine which is highly corrosive.


1. I could not find a relationship between potassium and borate in the product
2. May be used in high pressurized systems
3. Dosage is 1.12 oz per quart, you can average this out so 16oz will do the job just fine
4. Add at every oil drain, you may easily double the oil drain cycle
5. Oil viscosity is not affected
6. Excellent for turbo and high heat environments
7. Fluid systems which perform more efficient with less friction benefit. If friction is required like an automatic transmission then it would not be used there
8. I use it in my CLS 320 and what a increase in performance when I take off, I also picked up 2+MPG

If you liked the Rev-X product then you will be very pleased with the nanoborate technology, anything else I can answer or make clearer let me know. I also recommend the AR6200, see attached. I use it and together picked up another 3MPG and I no longer need to use high test, developed at Bell Labs and sold worldwide. A 16oz bottle will last forever, 1 oz treats 80 gallons.

Thank you for your interest

Rick

Rick Dragos, P.E. // President // Evergreen America Corporation
P: 203-265-5700 | M: 203-927-0132 Skype ID: evergreenamerica | Vcard

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Evergreens website is full of factual backed science behind the product. How well it will work in my 6.0 has yet to be seen. But the cost of the product is a whole lot less than Rev-X at this time. And if it works with the same results or possibly even better, then that would be great.

I have to thank IdahoF350 for finding this site and product, and it looks very promising in my opinion.
http://www.evergreenamerica.com/index.cfm/nano-products/archoil-nano-lubrication-solutions/engine-treatment/
Harry
 

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Discussion Starter #10
yea that would be awesome for that cost compared to the rev-x 32 bucks for only 4 oz. Get 4 times as much for a lower price. Does the mixture need the mineral oil or is that just a filler?
It looks like AR9100 is ready to just pour in as it comes. Aprox one 16oz bottle for our 6.0's. So hold back a half a qt on an oil change and add the 16oz container. I just did my oil change a week ago, so it will be awhile before I will be able to try this product in my truck.

Harry
 
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I found a retail outlet for it close to where I live. They offer the product called Motor Silk, which is exactly the boron based friction modifier your talking about.
They sell it for $39.95 for a 16 oz. bottle; The guy I talked to did not know too much about it, but he said he would have 'Ernie' call me back about bulk pricing.
I'll let you know what he says.


Green Garage

The Garage That Comes To You

1433 Pearl Street
Boulder, CO 80302
P 303 991 5650

108 Smokey Road
Ft. Collins, CO
P 970 237 4390

www.greengarage.com
 
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If it works for ya all thats great . But it still sounds like expensive snake oil to me. Changing oil on time and a few blackstone tests got me to 172,xxx . An additive may cover up a few of your pet peeves, but if your motors gonna take a puke, a 8 oz. bottle of snake oil wont keep your rods off the road.....
 

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350FORD,

If, after I've fixed all my pet peeves, I get 20 more horsepower, a few more miles per gallon and the motor lasts another 200,000 miles, I think that would be worth an additional $15 per oil change.
 

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I don't think we are dealing with snake oil here. That goes for Rev-X and this new find. Rev-X has clearly proven itself, it's just cost prohibitive. This could be a more viable product from a cost/benefit perspective.

The real issue here is the engine oil we are buying has changed drastically in the past 20 years. When the original HEUI systems were designed, the oil they were designed to operate with were chemically very different. Modern engine designs and emissions concerns have resulted in lighter weights and chemical changes to the oil, stripping the oil of components which used to provide various forms of protection inside older engine designs.

A little over a decade ago was when aftermarket camshaft manufacturers started feeling the effects of these changes. The Fed required reduced levels of certain minerals like zinc and phosphorous to reduce catalyst fouling and poisoning. Unfortunately those are the very same components we are trying to add back into the oil for our trucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
AR9100 is on its way, along with a sample bottle of their fuel additive which they would like me to try. Spoke with Rick at Evergreen on the phone this morning. Seems genuine and very knowledgeable. The fact that they are hiding nothing and providing all the science they can, is a very different approach contrast than Rev-X's trade secrets and flashy marketing. I wish I would have waited before changing my oil 2 sundays ago. I will try this product as soon as I can, and will try the fuel additive immediately.

Theres no doubt the 6.0 is unusually dependent on it's motor oil like no other engine. It's crucial as part of the ignition system as well as protecting the rolling mass components. I still believe the 6.0 needs help with it's oil system, and anything that can help things slide along easier and help clean and protect the injectors and high pressure system is a big plus for this motor. Hey, maybe were onto something here with this nano lubricant technology, I sure hope so.

Harry
 

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350FORD,

If, after I've fixed all my pet peeves, I get 20 more horsepower, a few more miles per gallon and the motor lasts another 200,000 miles, I think that would be worth an additional $15 per oil change.


Im not trying to be a dic here, but I would like to see some proof other than the manufacture that someone gets 20 more hp from the begining to the end of a oil change. Dyno results from someone on this site would be great. Anyone who owns a diesel truck can milk a few more miles a gallon if there trying to do so. I can get an extra 4 miles a gallon dropping from 80 to 58 w/ the cruise on. Are you really gonna wait another 12 years to see if your gonna make another 200,000. I may have missed it but I didnt see in your sig that you had a tuner. If not you dont know what your missing. An sct will make your truck run and shift better, and save fuel if your trying too. Ive replaced my c-94 injectors, and my hpop. Both of witch I would consider, inferior parts for an Jan. '03 built truck. My Truck has been tuned since 40,xxx mi. by two different tuners. Its not a commuter, its a farm and work truck first, a weekend warrior second. Like I said before, If you like it great. My truck may lay down on me today, but it has lasted 172,xxx mi. in a hard enviroment just by changing the fluids on time.
 

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350FORD,

People want different things from their vehicles. Some want power, some want economy, some want proof. I'm in the camp that wants economy, power and proof. However, in the absence of proof, you do what you can to build your own opinion.

I believe that lubrication technology is improving all the time, but I'm not about to use something just because someone says it works.... Like you, I want the data, if I can get it.

I don't have a tuner, yet. I refuse to get one until I know the motor is mechanically sound. As yet, I don't believe it is. This last 2 weeks may be where I turn the corner. I've removed the STC fitting, replaced the stand pipes, installed a Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler, re-built the oil cooler and replaced the water pump and serpentine belt (since it was all apart). I hope I can drive the truck for another 100,000 miles before having to do any more serious work on it. If it runs good after this week, I will look at a tuner.
 

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The real issue here is the engine oil we are buying has changed drastically in the past 20 years. When the original HEUI systems were designed, the oil they were designed to operate with were chemically very different. Modern engine designs and emissions concerns have resulted in lighter weights and chemical changes to the oil, stripping the oil of components which used to provide various forms of protection inside older engine designs.
QUOTE]

:whs

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Below is a dyno test on a 6.0 Powerstroke, without and then with Rev-X. It's very unbiased, and proves that there is something to this potassium/borate concoction. I believe him.

http://www.gopowerhungry.com/images/products/ficm_ecm/VXBC6N4_AKZ2AH14_140_HP_Rev_X_vs_No_Rev_X.jpg

419 HP at 2800 RPM
820 Ft/Lbs at 2600 RPM
400+ HP from 2600 RPM to redline

Needless to say, I was pretty happy with those numbers and was ready to call it a day. Then a thought hit me. (I know, it's rare ) Just for grins, I grabbed some Rev-X off the shelf, poured it in the engine, and let the engine run for a bit while I checked other fluids, analyzed my earlier datalogs and dyno plots, and cleaned up a bit. After about 30 minutes, I decided to try a couple more runs. Now keep in mind that this vehicle had been running for about 3 hours solid, with the only off time being how long it would take to change programs (maybe 2-3 minutes) so the engine oil and coolant temps were reasonably stable.

I will regularly do a series of three dyno runs, disregarding the first, using the second, and referencing the 3rd for comparitive accuracy. The following dyno plot is done with this format. These are the 2nd run plots for the 140 HP program with and without Rev-X.

(click image to enlarge)


As you can clearly see, the Rev-X has made a significant difference in power through the entire RPM band, especially between 2000 and 2600 PRM. The was a 9 HP and 25 Ft/Lb peak gain, with the 400+ HP mark moving down to 2550 RPM.

What I also noticed (and you can't see on the dyno) is that over the next few mornings my cold running issue had been completely eliminated. The trucks starts up perfectly and I can immediately take off without so much as a skip or hiccup.

I am currently planning to produce some fuel economy results, but I unfortunately do not have any "before" numbers since I hadn't even used 1/4 of a tank before we put the Rev-X in. However, I'm very interested to see what my final economy does come out to... once I settle down and quit playing with the truck.

Up until now, I've been extolling the virtues of Rev-X simply based on the responses and feedback from our customers. In fact, that was how we found out about it in the first place. Now, as a Rev-X user, I must say that I am thoroughly impressed. Will it work for everyone? Who's to say. We've most certainly had non-positive feedback from customers who said it did nothing for them, but those type of feedback were pretty infrequent. In most cases, our customers did notice some positive benefits. I know I'm pretty happy with it.

I hope this information is helpful.
__________________
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Power Hungry Performance - The ORIGINAL in Ford custom tuning... Since 1996!
(678) 890-1110



Harry
 

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Im not trying to be a dic here, but I would like to see some proof other than the manufacture that someone gets 20 more hp from the begining to the end of a oil change. Dyno results from someone on this site would be great. Anyone who owns a diesel truck can milk a few more miles a gallon if there trying to do so. I can get an extra 4 miles a gallon dropping from 80 to 58 w/ the cruise on. Are you really gonna wait another 12 years to see if your gonna make another 200,000. I may have missed it but I didnt see in your sig that you had a tuner. If not you dont know what your missing. An sct will make your truck run and shift better, and save fuel if your trying too. Ive replaced my c-94 injectors, and my hpop. Both of witch I would consider, inferior parts for an Jan. '03 built truck. My Truck has been tuned since 40,xxx mi. by two different tuners. Its not a commuter, its a farm and work truck first, a weekend warrior second. Like I said before, If you like it great. My truck may lay down on me today, but it has lasted 172,xxx mi. in a hard enviroment just by changing the fluids on time.
Mine has low miles 65k but suffers from stiction any time its below 60deg, my first oil change with Rev-X has me into single digit temps for a few days and I had no startup, stiction, or white smoke issues. I am a believer now.
 
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