The Diesel Garage banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well still haven't figured out my truck. Shop wanted me to return to stock ECM tune and see what ECT temps were like then. No change. They asked me to put a load on the truck to see how hot it would get, but not to overheat it. Pull over at 230. It was 39 degrees this morning when I hooked up to my 20' gooseneck with Massey Furguson loader and went for a drive. No mountain passes, but some pretty good hills. Got EOT up to 223 and ECT to 218. Couldn't really put petal down as EGTs would hit 1250-1300 quick on any hills going 40-50 MPH. Could maintain 45 mph at 1150-1200. Got back and popped hood to find white residue on degas bottle. Never smelled coolant, and have never has residue on degas bottle. Truck is studded (ford gaskets and machined heads), Bullet Proof Oil cooler and Bullet Proof remote oil cooler. Never saw boost over 20-22psi on the CTS...

Shop had truck last week and pressure tested truck in same condition and said gaskets were fine, but it wasn't under a load.

Still running the Wicked Wheel

Not sure what to do now. This is my frustrated vent post. And yes I know you pay to play, just wasn't planning on paying quite this much. Oh well...
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Was it wet? White residue could easily be salt brine. If it puked you should see it I don't think it will dry that fast.
What is your fan speed while driving? I was tooling around this morning with the plow on and my fan was about 80. No air flow, tA2 was 160 deg so my air going into the engine was hot and CAC basically not cooling things off. I got on it and easily hit 1300 EGT which is tough to do normally. I still think you have a serious air flow issue thru your grille but that's just my opinion.

My plow restrictricting air flow simulates your issue.

Wes
 

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Wes it wasn't wet, just crusty white residue. I wiped it clean and will see if it does it again. I removed my logo and extra stuff in front of the grill. I know Ford design their grills for a reason, but this thing is pretty open compared to the factory grill it replaced. I've never blown my head gaskets before, did head studs as a preventative measure. What is salt brine? How does it get there?
I can't see fan speed with my CTS. So it's hard for me to trouble shoot other than when I hear the fan at around 208-210 it does cool it down quickly. Honestly ECT didn't get as hot as I expected with that load, still not comfortable towing a mountain pass in the summer, but it was cooler than I expected.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Salt from the road. In MI everything gets a good coat of salt from them spreading it on icy roads. I'd get a scangauge you can see fan speed with the Xgauges.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
We get salt and slush but I've never seen any residue up there. Time to check the fan. Thhx
 

·
Stuck in Commiefornia...
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
Here me out on this. White residue from coolant is the silicate based coolant drying on the top of the bottle. If your bottle has an old cap, check the sealing surface of the bottle, there is a little raised bead on it, make sure it has no nicks or dings, or it creates a path for coolant to escape under pressure. Then check the cap itself. If it's the original,or more than 3 years or 50k on it, just replace it. The full level cold should be an inch user the minimum line, the trick here is mark it with a sharpie when it's cold. Park in the same place, check it on successive mornings after you use the truck just like you did today.

Now to address another issue. The EGTs are a killer. You should be seeing peak boost around 29-32psi. You want more boost. If the tune isn't making boost, you need a different tune. Basically, the more air you put in the lower your EGT will be at any given point. So if you have a stok tune that with a stock turbo only makes 25 psi because it's one of those later strategies ford concocted, get a tune that commands more boost with stock fuel. Because a Powermax has a larger turbine than stock, the exhaust back pressure tables need to be rewritten, especially on an inferred EBP strategy.

Another area to consider is the intake manifold may need to be cleaned. You may not be getting enough air to the rear cylinders, causing them to run very hot. This is where the intake manifolds really suck. Unfortunately, they are stupid expensive to upgrade and that doesn't solve your issue. But perhaps a good application or two of Seafoam might improve things.

Finally, take the truck, run it up a hill, stop at the top, and check the temp of the charge cooler inlet and outlet with a temp gun if you can. The discharge should be a bunch cooler than the inlet.

One other thing, on a 6.0L, your tune vendor can change the fan engagement points on these trucks. I always ran mine so that the low speed setting was 195 and high speed was 210. That's about 10-15° cooler than stock. Sounds silly but it makes a huge difference. I wish the 7.3 had the same ability, that's a great system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Levi'sford

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Good info. I think it's the factory cap. I will go,pick up a new one. My next mod was going to be a ported intake. You read my mind on the fan temps with tunes. I just ordered he tunes and am hoping to incorporate the fan coming on at lower speeds. I will check coolest level. It may be a bit high. As always thanks for all the info. Although this forum isn't as active as others, there are some great people on here.

On a side note. Knowing my set up, what current turbo would you recommend? I'm thinking of trying something different.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Idaho am I checking coolant level to see if I'm using coolant or to make sure it's not overfill or both?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
Good info. I think it's the factory cap. I will go,pick up a new one. My next mod was going to be a ported intake. You read my mind on the fan temps with tunes. I just ordered he tunes and am hoping to incorporate the fan coming on at lower speeds. I will check coolest level. It may be a bit high. As always thanks for all the info. Although this forum isn't as active as others, there are some great people on here.

On a side note. Knowing my set up, what current turbo would you recommend? I'm thinking of trying something different.
Idaho has good points and is way more knowledgeable. Your experience basically mimics my truck with fewer mods when I have something obstructing the airflow - snowplow. My EGTs are never as high as they were today when I got on it (nice sunny day with no snow on the roads). My iA1 (temp at the air filter) was 62 deg F. Real temp was 30 deg today. The iA2 was 160 ish. This is way higher than normal. I took the plow off and did the same thing with iA2 around 80 deg and my EGTs were normal around 1100. All of this was at my max 26psi of boost. My truck will never build more than that.

I followed your other post and still think you have a lack of air flow or superheated air issue with all the heat exchangers in your front end. I don't doubt you have a possible lack of air as Idaho350 indicated but since everything cools off fast when the fan kicks on it's the same as my plow issue. The SG2 will tell you fan speed and I'd bet $20 yours is not spinning more than 200 RPMs when it should be 450 or higher in a non locked non pulsing situation. Definitely get those tunes installed with the fan kicking on sooner and get a sg2 to verify that it is spinning the commanded speed. I don't understand why the fan locks up at the high temps it does. If I buy more tunes I'm going to have it pulse (spin faster ) at more like 205 and lock at 215. It might hurt mileage but I running cooler is a proven advantage on this engine. Still would like to know the difference in the two fan clutches available. If anyone knows please chime in. There is one for the plow package and one for stock. Is it just heavy duty clutch or does it spin faster in the unlocked mode?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
http://www.madturbowerks.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&view=product&layout=show&Itemid=147
http://www.madturbowerks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=143

If your going to switch out the turbo, my suggestion would be to talk to Adrian at madturbowerks. He may be able to come up with a good solution for a correct replacement application turbo as I believe your root cause of the high temp everything is the turbo not flowing correctly for your high altitude location. A smaller quicker spooling turbo would work better for high altitude mountainess driving.

I sure hope you can get this issue resolved, it must be driving you nuts, hang in there, we all want to see your truck working right.

Harry
 

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Nuts is being nice. I as ready to sell it yesterday, but drove it today and changed my mind. Even if it's gaskets it's cheaper to fix than buy new. I've got this thing decked out just the way I want it.

I was about ready to order a stage I or II from Adrian, but I've been following some threads on other forums and not so sure he's still making turbos. Looks like most of his staff or sales help bailed due to shady practices, nor paying core charges in a timely manner, etc. Also looking at Barder. I only live about an hour from Elite but didn't care for their service early on.

After reading late into the night I would agree that with the oil cooler between the inter-cooler and radiator is just adding more heat when the truck warms up. They used to mount the oil cooler in the bumper where the fog lights are but have since changed. I've ordered some tunes from Grarhead but have yet to hear from them. Want to change the fan so,it comes on earlier. I have nothing against KEM, just want to try another vendor. Have read lots of good things about them. Also am interested in heavy duty fan clutch. Love the elec fans but they don't move as much air. Really free up the engine compartment.

I bought a new degas cap yesterday. Think the one I had as original. If I can I will attach pic of degas bottle when I found the residue. I've never had a puking issue so maybe I'm over reacting. Thanks guys, well get her running right.
 

Attachments

·
Stuck in Commiefornia...
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
Tried to post a response earlier. I suspect you are having an issue passing air throu the intercooler and radiator. Did you remove any of the little rubber strips that seal te radiator and intercooler to the core support? If you did, that's likely part of the problem. Also, these trucks pull a huge amount of air through the front bumper. I know it's a lot of work, but if you have or reinstall the rubber seals and the problem persists, consider pulling the bumper and testing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Levi'sford

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I will check the seals. It's going back to the shop this week. I've been looking at my bumper. It sits further out and is higher off the ground. Not quite as much open where the fog lights are. I'm surprised there is not much data for temps with bullet proof set ups. There are a few I read last night that make my numbers look ok with ECT and EOT but I would like to drop EGT a little.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Here are some pics.
 

Attachments

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Underneath
 

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Now with the pic
 

Attachments

·
Member
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Entire front.
 

Attachments

·
Stuck in Commiefornia...
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
You need to seal the bottom of the bumper to the radiator support better. The way it is right now, the air goes through the grill and any excess air washes out from the bottom and then goes under the radiator and intercooler nstead of through them. I'd bet money a stock bumper and plastics for an '05-07 would solve your temp issues. You just need to capture the air and force it through the intercooler and radiator. This is why the fan is having such a big impact on temps when it engages.

Back in the '90s when I was still heavy into Fox body Mustangs, there is a 3" plastic air dam under the radiator that everyone liked removing. On the GT, there was no upper grill opening on those cars. All of the air through the radiator was captured by te lower bumper opening and that plastic deflector. The though back then by many was that it was an aerodynamic aid and not necessary. But not only was it an aerodynamic device it doubled as part of the cooling system ducting, maintaining positive pressure in the bumper and forcing air to flow through the coolers. Those cars ran 10-15 degrees hotter in the summer and ate fans and fan clutches without that $25 piece of plastic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Levi'sford

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
:whs

Fan speed will prove this.

With plow raised 70 MPH = 80 to 100 RPM

No plow 70 MPH 600 ish on the RPM. My deltas on air temp thru the CAC on a 20 degree day like today was 20 degrees. 20 deg in 40 deg out at 10 -15 psi on the autometer boost gauge. This will be another tell tale sign.

SGII will prove it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Levi'sford
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top