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Slow 6.0
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Discussion Starter #1
i have a snap on diagnostic scan tool that i use to monitor the ICP pressure and other data. on my 140hp position i noticed that after about half throttle the motor goes flat, u can keep putting ur foot into it and it does nothing but get louder, EGTs start to raise very quickly, and it also starts to billow smoke. i setup up the scanner to show throttle position and ICP pressure and as i put my foot into the throttle i noticed the ICP pressure would rise to about 1700-1800psi then at 1.88 AP, it would drop to 1000-1100 and this is where the engine would go flat until right before WOT then the power comes back on strong. i dont understand what would cause this? it does the same thing on the 100 setting but its not noticable at all. my hpop isnt maxed out either because if i ground the IPR at wot i get another 300-400psi of ICP pressure. anyone experience what i am talking about or know whats causing it? just not enough oil for the amount of fuel the injectors or bad stock programming?
 

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Slow 6.0
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1,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
i wish someone with some programming knowledge would step in here and explain to me whats happening. going from 1800psi down to 1000psi is a large drop in pressure there has to be some explanation.
 

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I must have missed this post while searching the forums.

What it sounds like its that the amount of ICP that is being called for in that program. Your stock HPOP can not keep up with it. Have you scanned for any codes? If you do and you get a p1211<ICP is less then or greater then desired> then it is the HPOP.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to give Jody a call.
 

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Slow 6.0
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1,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
yes that code is in there. would upgrading the the "hump" hpop pump off a late 99-03 be sufficient or should i just look into aftermarket setups?
 

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&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;Lady in Red&amp;amp;amp;amp;
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173 Posts
Power Stroke,

99% of the time your HPOP is fine. The reason that your ICP is falling off and coming back is due to incorrect tuning in your mass fuel desired and your injection feed rate tables. What is happening is that the fuel derate table has not been properly remapped to compensate for the amount of ICP that is being requested. This will also cause you to throw an ICP code. We've proved this on the dyno time and time again. Have your programming adjusted in these areas and your issue will be resolved. It is alot more feasable to make these adjustments pryor to spending money for a new HPOP.

Bob Riley of DieselSite.com has a new system getting ready for market. We have been working with Bob on the tuning end of it, and can maintain 3,000psi from off throttle to wide open throttle for the entire run. It never falls off 3,000psi. If interested contact Bob at 352-257-1669. He is a great guy and has some great products.

Sheila Perry
TS Performance
 

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TDG Mafia - Booze Runner
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3,705 Posts
Power Stroke,

If you can find a HPOP off of an 03 7.3 it will help a lot. It will still drop below desired on the 140 setting at full throtle under hard power. But not as bad. You just have to get used to throtle position and where you foot needs to be to mantian the power curve when racing.
 

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Senior Member
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Darn early 99's.... I feel for you guys, SIZE DOES MATTER... LOL :kissazz
 

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&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;Lady in Red&amp;amp;amp;amp;
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173 Posts
Now that's funny right there LOL :Thumbup:
 
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Byenow said:
Power Stroke,

99% of the time your HPOP is fine. The reason that your ICP is falling off and coming back is due to incorrect tuning in your mass fuel desired and your injection feed rate tables. What is happening is that the fuel derate table has not been properly remapped to compensate for the amount of ICP that is being requested. This will also cause you to throw an ICP code. We've proved this on the dyno time and time again. Have your programming adjusted in these areas and your issue will be resolved. It is alot more feasable to make these adjustments pryor to spending money for a new HPOP.

Bob Riley of DieselSite.com has a new system getting ready for market. We have been working with Bob on the tuning end of it, and can maintain 3,000psi from off throttle to wide open throttle for the entire run. It never falls off 3,000psi. If interested contact Bob at 352-257-1669. He is a great guy and has some great products.

Sheila Perry
TS Performance
Sheila...a few questions then.

With him having a 99...his hpop can only shove out so much psi before it falters. How can programming overcome the physical limitations of the pump? Don't take this as a flame...I've just never heard of programming compensating for the hpop falling off. If things are remapped...does this just mean that you back off on the fuel that the ICP is calling for then?

As for Bob's pump...you are correct that he is a great guy and very easy to talk to. He describes his pump as a high volume pump that requires no modifications to install, and that no modifications are required to the tuning either. I take this meaning that he has altered the innards somehow...becoming a modified pump.

To get back to Power Stroke, your 99 hpop in stock form will only take you so far.

Come September at Smokin...we will see what "Big Oil" does for hp and torque ratings to a mostly stock truck...meaning it still has stock injectors and turbo. Only difference between "stock" runs and "non-stock" runs will be the addition of big oil and a regulated fuel system. And I believe the regulated fuel system doesn't add to the Hp/Tq numbers much...if at all.

Dave
 

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&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;Lady in Red&amp;amp;amp;amp;
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173 Posts
No flame taken :Handshake:

I'll try my best to explain.....

When adjusting hpop output this cannot be done in one map only. While I cannot disclose which maps, there is a formula. When you lower one table you raise another. Then you have percentages each table has to see before it will make the change. You mention the limitations of a 99 HPOP and you are correct, but you should still be able to maintain a min of 1300psi through your entire run. This is done through the programming.

For example,

If you run aftermarket injectors installing a new hpop ( any brand) you will only see minimal gains, by having proper tuning you will see maximum gains.

Sheila
 
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Byenow said:
No flame taken :Handshake:

I'll try my best to explain.....

When adjusting hpop output this cannot be done in one map only. While I cannot disclose which maps, there is a formula. When you lower one table you raise another. Then you have percentages each table has to see before it will make the change. You mention the limitations of a 99 HPOP and you are correct, but you should still be able to maintain a min of 1300psi through your entire run. This is done through the programming.

For example,

If you run aftermarket injectors installing a new hpop ( any brand) you will only see minimal gains, by having proper tuning you will see maximum gains.

Sheila
True...with any modification proper tuning will maximize the potential. That I fully agree with. But if he's asking if he needs a different pump to get rid of that "falling on the face" feeling...the answer is yes or no...depending on where he wants to take the truck.

You could optimize programming to work with his hpop...which should have a minimum of 1300 psi...but he's got 227k on the ticker...so it wouldn't surprise me if it can't hold that much. To me that means you have to defuel the programs a bit to cut down on smoke(unburnt fuel) and not overload the hpop.

Or he could get an aftermarket pump which would enable him to fully use the programming available. If the tune calls for 3000psi of oil...an aftermarket pump could supply that. He is then maximizing the programming.

At least thats how I perceive this to work...but being a weatherman I am used to being wrong. LOL LOL
 

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&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;Lady in Red&amp;amp;amp;amp;
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173 Posts
4cstr,

It looks like in a post down the page he changed out his hpop to with a remanned one. He actally lost PSI. He said he was running 1300 psi before he made the change. What I am saying is alot of people's problems can be addressed through the programming and not everyone needs a upgraded or new HPOP.

Sheila
 
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Byenow said:
4cstr,

It looks like in a post down the page he changed out his hpop to with a remanned one. He actally lost PSI. He said he was running 1300 psi before he made the change. What I am saying is alot of people's problems can be addressed through the programming and not everyone needs a upgraded or new HPOP.

Sheila
Sheila...I can agree with that. I also read where he swapped out to a reman...and most likely a 15 degree pump. Of course I read it after I read this thread. :damnit LOL

Thanks for helping to clear some things up.

Dave
 

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Slow 6.0
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1,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
yeah i lost a little hpop when i swapped to the reman unit, before the swap i checked the wot hpop with the stock one on a scanner it was like 1150, now its 1050 with the reman. truck runs identical pretty much. i know for sure the pump wont give me optimal performance but i just thought it was weird to go from 1800psi to 1000 psi from 1.80 throttle to 1.90 throttle position. the psi actually drops at the same spot and the same amount on any of the program settings, stock it doesnt tho, it just keeps increasing with more throttle input. thats why i was wondering if it was a programming issue as well as the hpop not being powerful enough. anyone have any info on that PULSE pump from dieselsite?
 

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Slow 6.0
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1,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
is that the same bob byenow was referring to or?
 

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Slow 6.0
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1,554 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
alright cool, that was the pump i was planning on buying. the setup i had in mind for my truck is...

BB Garrett or H2E Turbo
Pulse Pump or similar
BTS or Suncoast Tranny
Customized Tuning

eventually ill probably do injectors since mine have a lot of miles on them theyll probably crap out eventually. i figured with that setup minus injectors i should be in the 14s consistently and safetly. im saving up for a turbo right now my stock one is shot, might as well upgrade it while im there, i plan on selling the propane setup to help fund the turbo, after that its tranny time this winter with the money i make plowing.
 

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Got Diesel?
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824 Posts
My dad had an 03 6.0 that ford tried some creative tuning on to help mask some the inherant issues that the early 6.0's had...

Ford bought it back.
 
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