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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am curious as to which tuners have cylinder pressure testing equipment. If a tuner has no such equipment then how do you know if your tuning exceeds safe CP limits. This is a question for the businesses that market aftermarket tuning. Knowing who has what is important for a prospective buyer.

Some of the companies that come to mind are Swamps, DP-Tuner, DI, Gearhead Automotive, PHP, TS, Tony Wildman and others. I am not intentionally leaving any others out, these were what came to mind.
 

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I know Swamps and DP Tuner have the stuff.

I'd be willing to bet Bill Cohran at Power Hungry has it, along with TS Performance. If David doesn't have it I'd be surprised.

Matt at Gearhead and Tony I'm not sure about, but I've never heard of anyone having issues with their tuning so...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know Swamps and DP Tuner have the stuff.

I'd be willing to bet Bill Cohran at Power Hungry has it, along with TS Performance. If David doesn't have it I'd be surprised.

Matt at Gearhead and Tony I'm not sure about, but I've never heard of anyone having issues with their tuning so...
I am not referring to who has had issues. The question is; if you do not have CP testing equipment then how do you know if your tunes are within safe cylinder pressure limits.
 

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Jonathan from swamps live tuned my truck with CP test equipment last weekend. I was very impressed with what he could tell with it. I think it is very importank when you are trying to make the kind of power I am with a stock engine, but with a milder combonation, I think all of these tuners have been around 7.3's long enough to know what safe levals are and what it sounds like if something is wrong, there were a few times when we tryed some stuff that didn't work and he whould tell me to get out of the throttle right away, I usually could tell something was wrong before he had to say anything.

FYI one of jonathan's cylinder pressure sensors quite while we were working on my truck, I think he said it was about a $1000 sensor, luckaly thought it was under warrenty and he had a spaire :D
 

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IIRC,Tadd At Elite had it.

I would think the big companies probably have it, but I don't know for sure.

It really doesn't matter who has it, its who is having it done to ensure their motors are dialed in correctly. This means making sure tunes and mods mesh together, Not only the tunes having safe CP's or not. The testing show many aspects of the engine tuning. One thing is temps of the cylinder. This allows us to verify the temps in the cylinder to see how they match with the EGT gauge installed in the truck. This will tell us if the EGT gauge is actually reading true temps.

When we receive our updated equipment back EA tuning will be offered at a new price of $750 Plus purchase of any damaged sensors. Hopefully this will allow more serious modders to step up and make sure their trucks are dialed in after spending money on an expensive engine build. This will be in addition to live tuning and not part of it. :thumbsup


Diane
 

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I am not referring to who has had issues. The question is; if you do not have CP testing equipment then how do you know if your tunes are within safe cylinder pressure limits.
I understand that. Just saying they're tuning some VERY big name trucks without any issues, and one of them tuned a VERY heavily modified truck after Swamps and the owner said there was a night and day difference.

To each their own. I'll take tuners that trust instinct and sound just as fast as ones with high dollar equipment that I can't afford the testing with.

Good thread, by the way.
 

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I understand that. Just saying they're tuning some VERY big name trucks without any issues, and one of them tuned a VERY heavily modified truck after Swamps and the owner said there was a night and day difference.

To each their own. I'll take tuners that trust instinct and sound just as fast as ones with high dollar equipment that I can't afford the testing with.

Good thread, by the way.
So to answer his question, you don't know.
 

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I'll take tuners that trust instinct and sound just as fast as ones with high dollar equipment that I can't afford the testing with.

Good thread, by the way.
Instinct? No tuner alive tunes on instinct.

Experience, yes.

Sound, maybe.

Some of them tune as well without the "high dollar equipment" installed on the truck as they do with it installed, because they have learned what to look for and know what works using that equipment.

I think we'll see even more tuners investing in testing equipment as advances continue to be made in the diesel performance industry.

prt
 

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IMO CP testing is not needed unless you are pushing in the upwards of 1300ft-lbs of TQ

But thats just me. Someone tell me other wise?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
IMO CP testing is not needed unless you are pushing in the upwards of 1300ft-lbs of TQ

But thats just me. Someone tell me other wise?
I would disagree; a stock injected truck has every bit the capability to make excessive CP levels. I am sure the tuners that have CP test equipment will agree as well. However to stay on track, the question is how do you know if you are a tuner and selling tunes that what you are selling is safe? IMO you can have all the instinct you want but that will not inform you as to what is going on in the cylinder.

My opinion has no weight; I am hoping the tuners will please post as to who has what and how your tunes are safe. I would think this is what prospective buyers would want to know.
 

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I have been asked by Matt, my tuner, to post this for him. Enjoy.


I have asked Trey to post this for me as I only post in one forum. I don't have Cylinder Pressure equipment, but would I love to have it. It is a luxury item that would be nice to have and makes the tuning process EASIER and FASTER. On a dyno, you can see where the torque does not increase with an increase in timing. This would correspond to elevated levels of CP (with no increase or a decrease in torque) when testing because it is peaking too early after Top Dead Center (or before in extreme cases). Torque output is directly related to cylinder pressure unless you do dumb things with timing. Timing is the very last thing that gets manipulated on the dyno (when I tune) to see the corresponding changes to torque output.

And yes, even something as simple as common sense does allow for good tuning. Personally I believe that understanding of the system that runs these trucks is as or more important than CP testing equipment because everything changes with Engine Oil Temperature as well as other sensor data. CP testing is only valid for those exact operating conditions unless you have the entire system tuned to compensate accordingly under all conditions.

Methodology and common sense can be employed and produce good outcomes when it comes to cylinder pressure and safety of tuning. Keep the torque under control and don't get stupid with timing and you will be safe. There are those running around with PMRs and 450+ HP that have never been CP tested and are only 4 degrees of timing from making 475 HP, but they were left low on timing for insurance on the PMRs. Just remember CP is torque and HP is some torque with RPM involved........ don't get caught up in "x horsepower is safe for x combo"

Regards,
Matt Robinson
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I have been asked by Matt, my tuner, to post this for him. Enjoy.


I have asked Trey to post this for me as I only post in one forum. I don't have Cylinder Pressure equipment, but would I love to have it. It is a luxury item that would be nice to have and makes the tuning process EASIER and FASTER. On a dyno, you can see where the torque does not increase with an increase in timing. This would correspond to elevated levels of CP (with no increase or a decrease in torque) when testing because it is peaking too early after Top Dead Center (or before in extreme cases). Torque output is directly related to cylinder pressure unless you do dumb things with timing. Timing is the very last thing that gets manipulated on the dyno (when I tune) to see the corresponding changes to torque output.

And yes, even something as simple as common sense does allow for good tuning. Personally I believe that understanding of the system that runs these trucks is as or more important than CP testing equipment because everything changes with Engine Oil Temperature as well as other sensor data. CP testing is only valid for those exact operating conditions unless you have the entire system tuned to compensate accordingly under all conditions.

Methodology and common sense can be employed and produce good outcomes when it comes to cylinder pressure and safety of tuning. Keep the torque under control and don't get stupid with timing and you will be safe. There are those running around with PMRs and 450+ HP that have never been CP tested and are only 4 degrees of timing from making 475 HP, but they were left low on timing for insurance on the PMRs. Just remember CP is torque and HP is some torque with RPM involved........ don't get caught up in "x horsepower is safe for x combo"

Regards,
Matt Robinson
Good information, thanks for posting it.
 

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So to answer his question, you don't know.
No, that's not true. We can argue back and forth all day long, but it's not going to convince either of us.

Cylinder pressure testing equipment is very expensive, as has been determined already. Setting it up is time consuming and expensive as well.

Why is it that tuners without this equipment have trucks that are just as powerful and just as, if not more, reliable and streetable than tuners with this equipment? I realize that high performance trucks are always more risky than stock, but the point that I just said stays the same.

I'm not trying to argue with that last question, it's an honest question.

Instinct? No tuner alive tunes on instinct.

Experience, yes.

Sound, maybe.

Some of them tune as well without the "high dollar equipment" installed on the truck as they do with it installed, because they have learned what to look for and know what works using that equipment.

I think we'll see even more tuners investing in testing equipment as advances continue to be made in the diesel performance industry.

prt
I'm not a tuner, and I can't speak for any of them. But one would ASSume that tuning is like everything else.

With experience comes knowledge, and with knowledge comes INSTINCT.

I honestly wish that I had the extra money sitting that I could buy testing equipment, bring Matt up here, and have him test my truck being nearly stock, Trey's, and all 3 trucks that Nate and Ben have at Unlimited running Matt's tuning.
 

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Whats with the popcorn? He just explained how he does it and why...

Is there something that you don't agree with?
Nope, just waiting on other pertinent information.

No argument here.

With experience comes knowledge, and with knowledge comes INSTINCT.
Knowledge implies learning.

Instinct is innate.


prt
 

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No, that's not true. We can argue back and forth all day long, but it's not going to convince either of us.

Cylinder pressure testing equipment is very expensive, as has been determined already. Setting it up is time consuming and expensive as well.

Why is it that tuners without this equipment have trucks that are just as powerful and just as, if not more, reliable and streetable than tuners with this equipment? I realize that high performance trucks are always more risky than stock, but the point that I just said stays the same.

I'm not trying to argue with that last question, it's an honest question.


I'm not a tuner, and I can't speak for any of them. But one would ASSume that tuning is like everything else.

With experience comes knowledge, and with knowledge comes INSTINCT.

I honestly wish that I had the extra money sitting that I could buy testing equipment, bring Matt up here, and have him test my truck being nearly stock, Trey's, and all 3 trucks that Nate and Ben have at Unlimited running Matt's tuning.
Wouldn't ya think a tuner would step up to the plate and volunteer to do so to put this crap to rest for once and for all.. Or at least a few weeks.. I know they are in bidness to make $$ but there is also a little thing called "cost of doing Bidness"...
 

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<< Is this NOT a straight forward question??
The question is; if you do not have CP testing equipment then how do you know if your tunes are within safe cylinder pressure limits.
I'll take tuners that trust instinct and sound just as fast as ones with high dollar equipment that I can't afford the testing with.

No, that's not true. .
You can't afford the testing, yet its not true that you don't know your CP?

If it's not true, what are your CP's?


Sorry Matt, I'm confused and your statements are contradictory. :bang :confused: :shrugs
 
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