[killerbee]

On a side note to KB, I appreciate the Engineering approach to the discussion but in my opinion, a more laymens discussion might help to keep the topic moving forward.

my son is in swimming lessons. When his skinny body emerges from the 80 degree pool, and into 90 degree air with a 10 mph breeze, his lips turn blue within 5 minutes.

He can stay in 80 degree water for an hour, with just 5 minutes in 90 degree breezy air with 10% humidity, he is a shivering fool.

Analogy: His body is the charge air mass. and the heat is being sucked right out of him as he stand there evaporating the water off his skin.

 

[killerbee]

according to calculations, in my neck of the woods, should be able to carve 100 degrees off compressor discharge temps, by evaporating 1.5 lb/minute. That is about 1000 cc/minute.

The shown prototype is a nozzle mount I drew up. It is tooled to fit onto the black phenolic intake tube. I tried to make it as invisible as possible to the airstream, which is calculated at around 250 mph at the neck of the compressor. (Speaking of which, I am not real impressed with the aerodynamic looks of that tube, and a poor 90 degree sharp bend. Suffice to say, it has 10 times the resistance of the stock intake box configuration. It shows how stupid it is to try to find intake improvements, that pre-compressor tube takes the cake.

BTW, if you want to check your compressor blade condition, it takes less than 10 minutes to remove that tube.

I have discussed axial injection with several sources, including an author on boost technology. All agree center mass injection should be harmless to the higher speed tips. In fact, water will probably never reach the tips. But if any water does, it will have accelerated to or near tip speed, near supersonic.

It is believed that MAF will increase 10% or more, with the same commanded boost. We shall see, it is an easy experiment to do. Just pray that I do not have a resonance issue that will break the mount. I am not going to predict any flutter analysis, well because i don't have a clue how to predict it.LOL

 

[killerbee]

Brandon and I had a good time yesterday playing with injectors mounted on his old cast compressor intake tube. We learned that a relatively coarse mist (not fog) oriented only 4" away from the blade face, even with a 150 mph air stream, would agglomerate on the opposite wall of the tube before emerging.

When we located the same nozzle right up near the end of the tube, almost zero agglomeration. I was a bit surprised at the 4" result. Our air supply, aka leaf blower, was a little light compared to WOT, but still...that water comes out of the nozzle with some serious velocity, that it made it to the opposite wall before being swept out, in stream like fashion, the exact type of agglomerate stream that kills blade tips.

 

[stevebos]

Let me check my understanding.

1). A course mist of water was introduced from the side of the tube 4" forward of the turbine blade face. The water collected on the opposite wall of the tube.

2). A course mist of water was introduced from the side of the tube further forward (how much further?) of the turbine blade face. No water collected on the opposite wall of the tube.

I learned a new word; agglomeration. An agglomeration of relatively few brain cells are contained inside of Steve's head.

Given a straight, constant diameter tube, does the air mass direction and velocity remain constant, or does it change in the area immediately forward of the turbine?

Interesting stuff!

 

[killerbee]

Let me check my understanding.

1). A course mist of water was introduced from the side of the tube 4" forward of the turbine blade face. The water collected on the opposite wall of the tube.

2). A course mist of water was introduced from the side of the tube further forward (how much further?) of the turbine blade face. No water collected on the opposite wall of the tube.

I learned a new word; agglomeration. An agglomeration of relatively few brain cells are contained inside of Steve's head.

Given a straight, constant diameter tube, does the air mass direction and velocity remain constant, or does it change in the area immediately forward of the turbine?

Interesting stuff!

yes all correct. the best test was locating the nozzle as close to the compressor face as possible. It shoots normal to airflow. And yes within a small compressible factor, airflow velocity is relatively constant in a tube of constant cross sectional area. Most of these tubes actually narrow very gradually, so the velocity is highest right at the tube exit. Sidenote: The LLY intake tube is the worst! It as a 90 bend that is an aerodynamic nightmare. I can just envision the turbulence it promotes.

 

[stevebos]

Compressor, yes.

I should look into the concept of introducing water immediately ahead of the turbine. I doubt it'll effect ECT, but it might effect EGT! And you thought I was kidding when I said "relatively few!" :crazy:

The LLY intake tube is the worst! It as a 90 bend that is an aerodynamic nightmare. I can just envision the turbulence it promotes.

Just a thought... Would there be any benefit to relocation of the intake to the area currently occupied by the battery; draw air from the fender, get rid of the bend? :idea:

 

[86 1 tonhauler]

not to thread jack ur thread killerbe but why not use a 20lb bottle of co2 and a cryo sprayer or what ever its called and mount in in front of the cac like the ricers do , it shown 70 hp increases on 4cyl turbo applications then why not use 2 20 or 30 lb bottles of c02 with two of the cac cryo coolers mounted in front of the cac and that should do it ,it will be more expensive than ur idea but would show big benifit to sled pullers and drag racers for safe increases in hp and more fuel burnt =more hp right? = faster 1/4 mile times ,

 

[86 1 tonhauler]

also wouldnt the nozzle sticking out in the intake tube cause a turbulance and unstability with the stream of water at differnt loads and or rpms? just trying to help

 

[Turbotug]

The nozzles we were using happened to be almost the exact same depth as the tube wall thickness, so no protrusion.

 

[killerbee]

Just a thought... Would there be any benefit to relocation of the intake to the area currently occupied by the battery; draw air from the fender, get rid of the bend? :idea:

sorry to have confused you. I used poor terminology. When I say "intake tube" in this case, I refer to the tube that transitions to the turbo compressor. It connects to the larger airbox tube.

On the LLY, with the egr crammed in, that tube is shaped less than optimum.

 

[killerbee]

86, those a good ideas, and they accomplish something a little different. I am trying to determine if MAF increases by using water to make single stage compression more efficient.

With water being a free resource...better idea for those who tow, for example.

 

[86 1 tonhauler]

i see what u mean, i would like some water set up for my dmax

 

[idahofox]

How far can the vapor ( water ) travel in A tube befor condensing ?

 

[killerbee]

Forever, as long as the temperature is not decreasing.

When the temp drops to the dew point, fog will form, if under 212 in 1 atm. Not sure about 2 1/2 atm, our stock boost pressure. I'll have to look that up.

 

[cumminsexpress]

here's another interesting variant on the idea... http://www.dieselbombers.com/showthread.php?t=4634

any thoughts?

Chris